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I sold the car that was not register on my name. I forged the bill of sale.

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Old Jun 18th, 2012, 01:49 PM   #1
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Default I sold the car that was not register on my name. I forged the bill of sale.

I bought the car from the lady. She signed the title and left the buyer's information fields empty.
i sold this car with the profit. i never register the title on my name. I told the buyer that i am reselling the car to make some money, and that is the title isn't on my name. He agreed to pay for it.
Later on the same day.
Buyer ask me to give him the bill of sale signed by the owner(same as a title) with the lower price on it to avoid paying taxes.
I forged her signature on bill of sale.

Now the buyer threatening me. He wants me to give his money back because he doesn't like the car anymore.
He knew that i am reselling the car and making profit on it.
Now he want to go to DMV and report that i sold the car that was not belonging to me. Also he want to sue me for forging bill of sale
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Old Jun 18th, 2012, 10:54 PM   #2
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Default Re: I sold the car that was not register on my name. I forged the bill of sale.

I wish to inform you that as regards forgery you can be held liable if the persons whose signature has been forged files charges against you. You can inform buyer that buyer was an accomplice in the act as he has proposed to have bill of sale of lower value and fully knew all the facts and hence in criminal action both will be liable.

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Old Jun 18th, 2012, 11:38 PM   #3
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Default Re: I sold the car that was not register on my name. I forged the bill of sale.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vovaseller View Post
I bought the car from the lady. She signed the title and left the buyer's information fields empty.
i sold this car with the profit. i never register the title on my name. I told the buyer that i am reselling the car to make some money, and that is the title isn't on my name. He agreed to pay for it.
Later on the same day.
Buyer ask me to give him the bill of sale signed by the owner(same as a title) with the lower price on it to avoid paying taxes.
I forged her signature on bill of sale.

Now the buyer threatening me. He wants me to give his money back because he doesn't like the car anymore.
He knew that i am reselling the car and making profit on it.
Now he want to go to DMV and report that i sold the car that was not belonging to me. Also he want to sue me for forging bill of sale
So, you're guilty of title-jumping (which makes me wonder why you didn't just go and register it after you allegedly bought the car), tax fraud (by reporting to DMV a lower value to avoid taxes), and forgery (creating a document under someone else's name to document ownership and sale of a car).

I'd give them back the money if I was you. Cheaper and easier than getting arrested, although that may still happen anyway.
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Old Jun 19th, 2012, 01:59 AM   #4
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Default Re: I sold the car that was not register on my name. I forged the bill of sale.

You are surely aware you are guilty.But i dont suppose the threats would hold any affect. The buyer will be held partly accused too as he was fully aware of what was happening and still went along as long as he saw his benefit. Now that he doesnt like the car he is threatening, probably in hope that you will give in and pay back so as to avoid legal issues. Try keeping a small proof for your own backup next time he calls and threaten you, Make a litlle conversation, recall the deal so that he talks about his part in it and you have his statement.
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Old Jun 19th, 2012, 02:11 AM   #5
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Default Re: I sold the car that was not register on my name. I forged the bill of sale.

What some aren't realizing is that we only have OP's word that the buyer knew about the title issue and subsequent forged bill of sale. I know of a great many people who would claim that there was someone else involved when it was all their own doing.

What PROOF do we have that the buyer knew? The seller's credibility is shot here, because not only did he title-jump, but they also voluntarily and readily forged a bill of sale with the former owner's name on it. If OP purchased the vehicle legitimately, then they could have solved their own problem fairly easily by simply registering the vehicle in their own name prior to re-selling it. The fact that they skipped that step leads me to believe that that they may not have obtained the vehicle legally themselves in the first place.

While the legal concept of "Clean Hands" sounds like it should apply here, one must FIRST prove that the buyer was fully aware of the situation. Without that, OP is going to be fully liable for everything that happened.
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Old Jun 20th, 2012, 01:06 AM   #6
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Default Re: I sold the car that was not register on my name. I forged the bill of sale.

You have a strong point here Sandyclaus. Agreed, W e are just hearing one side story, that too of an already guilty person. And come to think of it, if the buyer knew, he would think twice before threatening the seller, being aware that his actions could backfire as he had a part in it too
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Old Jun 20th, 2012, 09:51 AM   #7
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Default Re: I sold the car that was not register on my name. I forged the bill of sale.

The buyer just called me. He said that he contacted the original owner. Told her the story, and the didn't like the fact that i forged her signature.

He said that he likes the car now and he doesn't want any refunds, however if i don't want him to pass this bill of sale to the original owner, i should pay him $300-400.

Should i call him and say that he is involved in it as well and that passing it further would be bad for both of as? Is what hi is doing considered blackmailing ?
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Old Jun 20th, 2012, 02:52 PM   #8
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Default Re: I sold the car that was not register on my name. I forged the bill of sale.

Yes it's blackmail, but seriously you are in such a deep hole already which you dug yourself.

In many jurisdictions it's a FELONY to buy a car then re-sell it without ever transferring title. So virtually every action you have taken with regard to this vehicle has been illegal.
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Old Jun 21st, 2012, 12:22 AM   #9
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Default Re: I sold the car that was not register on my name. I forged the bill of sale.

Ofcourse he is blackmailing. and what assurance what guarantee do you have that even if you pay him up once now, he wouldnt demand it again later again when he wishes? Just sit quiet for some time, you also dont know whether the buyer is even telling you the truth about him contacting the original owner. If he did, the original owner would take an action against you , if they wish to. Else you are safe and the buyer cant cause you much harm
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Old Mar 11th, 2014, 02:07 AM   #10
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Default Re: I sold the car that was not register on my name. I forged the bill of sale.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vovaseller View Post
The buyer just called me. He said that he contacted the original owner. Told her the story, and the didn't like the fact that i forged her signature.

He said that he likes the car now and he doesn't want any refunds, however if i don't want him to pass this bill of sale to the original owner, i should pay him $300-400.

Should i call him and say that he is involved in it as well and that passing it further would be bad for both of as? Is what hi is doing considered blackmailing ?
I know your post is old, but I'm curious how it turned out.

The other question is where there extenuating circumstances that inhibited you having the title registered in your name?

I know of one case where there was an RV and 3 states. The first state "home state" is where he left to go on his vacation but was not fully intent on giving up state residency. He buys an RV in one state and the owner voluntarily moves it to another state for him.

It's a first time purchase of an RV and when he attempts to register it in the state he's in, which is NOT his home state and not the purchase state, but where there's an RV park near his family, he finds out the DMV refuses to register a vehicle to an owner that's not currently a resident of that state.

The "Home State" however requires him to bring the vehicle back 3000 miles to "inspect" the vehicle to confirm the VIN matches. While this was taking place he put the vehicle up for sale because driving 3000 miles would have been a waste of gas just to register a trailer and he wouldn't have had any licensing as the purchase state and the location state refused to register.

The opposite coast DMV said to attempt to get a 30 day tag for travel but the location state also refused that request.

So because this would be a ticket magnet he put the RV up for sale to get out from under this mess. After much frustration finds a buyer who understands this and was willing to buy it and return it to the purchase state that could have the following.

1) The DMV in the purchase state cares only about the title, not about who's who behind it. So a bill of sale was good enough for personal records but DMV doesn't check that.

2) The purchaser was given the original information with permission of the original owner in the purchase state. So since the vehicle is being registered back into that state they may have worked things out.

The RV was also insured the whole time under the individuals name, so there was no attempt to hide it's ownership or possession.

The RV owner was acting on the advice of the buyer also who claimed to have much more experience in these matters. So between the former owner, new buyer, purchase state was the same as the new owner state. This made it impossible for the vacationer to pay taxes on it in his home state as they made it impossible to register it without presenting it while unlicensed the whole way. So with no specific intent of tax fraud that wasn't an issue.

The new buyer also understood that if there was a problem he could return the RV and never contacted to report any difficulty in registration. So while it's a mess it's less of a mess once registered back in its purchase state where it's still on record in the DMV there.

So in your case, were there any extenuating circumstances that led you to have to not title the car?

Family emergency? Change of heart?

Another possible concept in such cases if it's a lapse of judgement, you create a NEW bill of sale listing yourself as the seller? have him sign it, and keep a copy for it, and then an affidavit signed that this is in lieu of destruction of the first contract with obvious mistakes. If he produces it with the other you have the agreement that he was going to destroy it signed by a notary.


So the signing may not have been an effort to deceive or evade anything. You simply may have just tried to sell a car and in a lapse of judgement. Giving him a corrected bill of sale listing yourself as the seller instead of the previous owner might work in a state that's Title Only that doesn't care about the bill of sale.

Another good resource would be contact people that buy and sell cars at auction. Some may have a workaround for buying a car, holding the title and selling the car without it being "property" tax as they're paying sales tax as a reseller. I'm unsure how any of that works but if there are any ways around it I'm sure used car dealers have the answer. And auction car sales agents.
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