International Fraud Black List

[China Chick]

If you are doing business in China, America, Canada, Australia, or the U.K. I suggest you visit the web site of the China Trade Commission and check their black list of over 120,000 scam artists and some 7,845 pages of deadbeats who don't pay their bills.

I met these guys when I lived in China a few years back and they helped my friend recover $150,000 from a local fraudster. They are former federal agents from America, Canada, and the U.K. and they have been exposing scams in China, America, Canada, Australia, and the U.K. for over 15 years.

They don't have a fancy web site but these guys are no-nonense bulldogs that know how to play hardball with thieves all over the world. Their motto says it all "Be Sure - Not Sorry!"

[Fred The Fed]

Thank you China Chick but you forgot to give their contact information below which Scam Patrol International provided me. I investigate cross-border fraud for a living and these guys are the best in China...

"DUE DILIGENCE: If you do not know what these two words mean you will eventually become a victim of fraud!

Before making any large purchase or investment in China, America, Canada, Australia, or the U.K. take 30 minutes of your life and read some black lists compiled from previous victims...

You can find China horror stories all over the Internet, but if you just want the most current list of over 9,500 Chinese scammers and their bank account nos. visit the web site of the China Trade Commission which has been doing global due diligence and private investigations and collections in China since 1996. Their web site is www.ChinaTradeCommission.org

If you want to see the BIG Back List of China Scam Web Sites visit this link of over 9,500 Chinese scam sites. (Don't buy anything from these web sites!)

http://www.globaltrade.net/promo/Chi..._WebSites.html


For an International Black List of over 30,0000 fraud and scam companies and individuals from America, China, Australia, and the U.K. this is the most comprehensive list I have ever seen:

http://www.chinatradecommission.org/blacklist.html

For a global listing of people who do not pay their bills, check this link:

http://www.chinatradecommission.org/DebtorDatabase.html

If someone has cheated you in China of $50,000 USD or more, these people can get your money back cheaper and quicker than lawyers:

http://www.globaltrade.net/internati...ts-Abroad.html

If you own a small or mid-sized business - be aware of these current Chinese scams that are VERY believable:

http://www.chinatradecommission.org/scamalert.html

And if you want to earn $10,000 exposing a Chinese Scam - go here:

China Trade Commission Offers $10,000 Reward To Expose Charity Scams - Beijing Today Events

Take it from someone who lived in China for more than ten years, this place is still like a box of chocolates...

(We here at Scam Patrol have cooperated with the CTC in the past and they have always provided accurate and timely information)"

[Due Diligence]

If you're going to check out "China Trade Commission"; or CTC do your due diligence. Google them and make sure what they say is true as there are some issues concerning how long they have actually been in business and what they really have to offer. Both of their domains, Home and www.chinatradecommissions.com were registered in July 9, 2011 by a Canadian Investment firm though they claim to have been created in 1996 and imply that they are a government agency. Their domain was suspended for copyright infringement and the pictures of their staff are phony. Outside of their own free press releases which are extensive and unverifiable, there is no evidence that they have done any of the many things they claim to have done except put on some children's shows. I suggest that you read: China Trade Commission is a Scam (fraudwatchers.org) before you decide to pay for their services.

[Fred The Fed]

As a former U.S. Treasury agent who did extensive work and over 2 dozen busts on Operation Greenback back in the 1980s, (Joint Anti-Money Laundering Task Force) and now as a licensed Private Investigator in Florida, I know a scam when I see one. I also know a smear job when I see one. I deal with facts - NOT assumptions, NOT gossip, and NOT innuendo. Keeping this in mind, I want to respond to "Due Diligence" who I truly suspect to really be "Mystery Guest" posing as another entity behind another alias screen name...

Dear Due Diligence...

I did further research after reading your post and spoke with Kevin at the China Trade Commission for almost 45 minutes on Skype. After I sent him a scan of my PI license and gave him my old CTC client number, he agreed to talk with me frankly and confidentially. Below is some of what I am authorized to disclose:

The CTC sent three rebuttals with verifiable facts and copies of their registration to Fraudwatchers along with a letter from their Legal Counsel, Joseph Wu. Only one of the rebuttals were posted. The other two were censored and then they were banned from making any further posts, including from the lawyer.

Here is one of the rebuttals that were deleted and Kevin promised to send me the other one that their lawyer attempted to post but was wrongly banned from doing so...

scams - View Single Post - List of Scam Websites

He also gave me the names and telephone numbers of 5 people who also say they were censored at Fraudwatchers when they tried to reply to allegations with comments that supported or defend the CTC. Three of these five people have already explained how they were censored publicly at Scam.com. Here are their comments:

scams - View Single Post - List of Scam Websites

scams - View Single Post - List of Scam Websites

scams - View Single Post - List of Scam Websites

When a forum relies on censorship to push their own opinion or hidden agenda to the forefront, that forum loses all credibility in my opinion. This is why I urge people to read this article:

http://www.globaltrade.net/international-trade-import-exports/f/business/pdf/China/Investing-Cyberspace-Due-Diligence-Options.html

Kevin has since sent me three documents that I have verified to be be genuine through my own independent channels:

1. A scan of Kevin's passport
2. The CTC's original Honk Kong registration from 1996
3. A one page letter from Atty. Joseph Wu documenting his work for the CTC since 2006 and the recent hacker attack on the CTC's web site and smear campaign now underway against the organization.

Also, I personally prefer to believe people who are willing to identify themselves, not people who hide between cyber screen names like "Mystery Guest". For example, I give Robert Wilson, far more belief than Mystery Guest. Here are Wilson's remarks:

scams - View Single Post - List of Scam Websites

Likewise the comments of the lady who works at the Beijing Bank have more significance to me because she is not taking one side or another, but provides information that confirms the CTC's investigative work in 2007, just as Scam Patrol did as well. Here are their comments:

scams - View Single Post - List of Scam Websites

scams - View Single Post - List of Scam Websites

I cruised the internet and found over 3 dozen news and press releases going back to 2008 and found many stories that were not generated by the CTC but by local newspapers like the China Daily, People's Daily, CRI Radio, etc. All of this serves to document the CTC was working in Beijing at least as far back as 2008. And I still have a brochure that the CTC sent me back in 2006 from their old address on Kimberly Street in Kowloon, Hong Kong. Here are just some of the links that I found:

Santa Claus is Coming to Town!

Amazing Las Vegas magician to perform for Beijing Children - Sunday, November 29th | PRLog

Search press releases

Expat kids get the chance to connect with Santa

And I am more inclined to believe a group of guys who have been donating thousands of dollars to kid's activities since 1998 than some clown named "Mystery Guest" who relies on assumptions to jump to conclusions. Sorry - I have a brain.

Further, I have met a fellow from the CTC named Kirby in NY in 2008. And as it turned out, we discovered that another CTC guy's father (Tyler) worked with me on Operation Greenbacks back in 1980 in Miami (Joint Special Task Force that made over 2 dozen money laundering busts). I personally used the CTC on a handful of cases in 2006-2008, and they helped me expedite an investigation on one of my most frustrating cases. Kirby has never lied to me about anything, and he he always handled my requests for assistance within a day or two. They did not always produce the desired results, but I know they did their best based on the reports they provided me. A sample of one of their due diligence reports can be seen here, and frankly, nobody does better in Asia than this for less money:

http://www.chinatradecommission.org/...ort-Sample.pdf

Sure, for $10,000 I can get twice as much details in a report elsewhere, but for $3,000 this is a great deal, especially for someone who may be planning to invest $100,000 into a Chinese venture. I also used to do my on-line database searches at the old .cn website in 2007-2008 but the site was blocked more than it was up! They had a different payment arrangement back then (about 20% cheaper with unlimited daily access)

And if I was in the whistle-blowing business in China, and was pointing fingers at corrupt government officials, the very last thing I would ever do is put my real name or photo on a web site! I would be a grease spot on the sidewalk within a week! Do you realize how many investigative reporters simply disappear in China? (Do a Google search)

But in closing, I refer to the comments of the LAPD guy who cuts to the chase when he said the following at Scam.com:

"Excuse me all you debaters… who is the victim and how was he/she cheated ** the CTC people and for how much, when, and where? If there is such a victim, is there a way to confirm the victim is real or just another fabricated on-line entity? I personally just spent 47 minutes scouring the net and did not find any complaints posted anywhere. This other bullcrap in not relative in my opinion. I am so sick of cowards that never identify themselves and make damaging claims against others without proof or legal responsibility. If people want to point fingers and accuse they should identify themselves as someone more than “Mystery Guest”. If what thy allege is true, they have nothing to fear. If they are guessing or fabricating, they deserve to get slammed in a slander suit. I did manage to find this online and believe it is right on target:

http://www.globaltrade.net/international-trade-import-exports/f/business/pdf/China/Investing-Cyberspace-Due-Diligence-Options.html


And as for China Chick who started of this thread, I still agree with here that there are no better black lists of scams and frauds for China, America, Australia, Canada, nor the U.K. than these here:

Black List

What is important is that people have an advanced warning system in place before they get swindled and due diligence is not cheap. Getting ripped off is always much more costly. The CTC does a good job in my personal and professional opinion. BTW... due diligence, I shared my background with you, what is yours? Are you really "Mystery Guest" or "Mr. Poirot" masquerading behind yet another on-line alias?

[Due Diligence]

I'm not really interested in getting into a long drawn out debate with you. You could be Scam Patrol, or China Chick, masquerading behind another screen name for all anyone knows, I don't really care. You say are "a former U.S. Treasury agent who did extensive work and over 2 dozen busts on Operation Greenback back in the 1980s". And how is anybody supposed to verify that? You could be a 10 year old in his mother's basement for all we know. You say you talked to Fred at CTC and Kirby and he and they sent you a bunch of information which you are authorized to disclose? How would anybody know if that's true, because you posted it? I'm thinking that persons who read this forum are just not that naive.

I looked at the "rebuttals" you posted and I don't see any thing even remotely verifiable information in them at all. Maybe that's why there weren't posted, who knows. But there are no facts, just what you and other posters says. You are hardly impartial, you spend as much time promoting CTC than anything else.

What is really important is if someone is going to consider paying $10,000 or $5,000 to an organization that says they have been in business since 1996 yet whose domain was registered in July 19, 2011 they better make sure the organization is not a scam. I have seen nothing on here yet that indicates that CTC has done anything but possibly put on children's shows in 2009.

[Scam Patrol]

Excuse me, but I think Due Diligence is deliberately ignoring the fact that five people have already acknowledged/confirmed the fact that only the ChinaTradeCommission.com and .org sites are new and they have previously used the .cn site for seven years, and press releases and China Daily, CRI Radio and People's Daily news article archives have documented the existence of the CTC as far back as 2008. You are also ignoring other inconvenient truths pointed out by "Fred The Fed" and my own comments from 10 days ago that I posted on Scam.com which is listed below for your benefit. We have met and dealt with CTC staffers professionally a few years back, (just as "Fred The Fed" also clearly states) so stop beating a dead horse with your smear campaign and tell us all who you really are Due Diligence. Are you "Mystery Guest" or "Poirot"????

Here is what I posted 10 days ago which either Due Diligence didn't see at Scam.com or didn't bother to read...

"Okay my friends - I have been watching this feud unfold and cannot stay quiet any longer even at the risk of blowing a cover on a current Alibaba investigation. First, I point out that Scam Patrol International has been posting on this site and others for over 18 months. I have also posted on this site via another border watch group I am affiliated with since 2006. Unlike “Mystery Guest” who signed up two weeks ago with one purpose in mind (to taint a competitor – The China Trade Commission). In reality “Mystery Guest” is really “Shuecraft” of Cyber Crime Ops – his own forum site that blocks anyone from China and 7 other countries from even browsing their forum. (So anyone unfairly accused on their web site from any of those 8 countries does not even have the right nor chance to respond, dispute, or rebut on-line within the same thread as their accusers – real fair and ethical huh?) Even though both Fraudwatchers.org and Cyber Crime Ops are technically “non-profit”, their members report that they are solicited for a variety of “fraud recovery”, “credit protection”, “investigative services”, all of which is quite legal. When I complained about that on-line, I got censored at Fraudwatchers, and when we protested the censorship, we got banned! (Sound familiar Bandit Buster?) But let’s be honest and call a spade a spade; those forums are really lead-generating machines. Nobody in this world today works for free, except perhaps Ms. Chin. So they do have a commercial motive in eliminating potential due diligence competitors. Now I will cut to the chase… I Bryan ******* have personally met Kevin, Lee, Arthur, and Ming of the China Trade Commission in Beijing, China in 2009. There was also another girl there as well but I cannot recall her name and she was the only one without a business card – an intern translator I seem to recall. According to my travel log and appointment book, I met with the CTC group at the Friendship Hotel on January 6th of 2009 at 1:30pm regarding two cases we worked on jointly for two different clients. The following day we had a second meeting at a sports bar called “The Goose & Duck”, and on the 8th, we were treated to a day at the Great Wall by Kevin and his wife. The first case involved the famous “Beijing Bandit” and the second a government official named Mr. Li Peng Liu. After a one year joint investigation, we managed to expose the Beijing Bandit (American Fugitive Sam Arnold) and although SPI got most of the credit, most of the grunt work in China was done by Kevin and Ming of the CTC. Only because Arnold’s wife is the granddaughter of one of China’s 10 most famous Army Generals, is he allowed to remain free, even though we got his American Independent Capital Group company shut down and funds frozen/seized. See this 2010 Fraud alert that contains many news and blog links about the Beijing Bandit and our joint efforts to expose him. We succeeded. http://www.chinatradecommission.org/FRAUD-ALERT.pdf http://www.scam.com/showpost.php?p=863744&postcount=1 http://www.italkcash.com/forum/gener...ing-china.html On the second case I cannot elaborate too much because of links to the current on-going Alibaba investigation, but let’s just say that Mr. Li Peng Liu is no longer a resident of Beijing. Because the CTC threatened to publicly expose some of his major corruption, Mr. Li Peng Liu was removed from his position and “promoted” to Inner Mongolia – out of harm’s way (That’s how they punish their government friends in China). Prior to these two cases, we also had previous contact with the CTC in 2007 and 2008 but only for a handful of database searches and three due diligence reports that we requested on behalf of our American and Canadian clients, one of whom would have become the victim of a $1.6 million historical artifact fraud if not for the alarms set off by the CTC’s DD report. In that case the information was provided to us by the CTC on March 12, 2008 and we relayed it to Interpol who has been looking for the guy for almost a year. Kevin and Ming found the perp in nine weeks living on a luxury yacht, ripping off wealthy Chinese people in the resort city of Sanya, Hainan. My point is that we have had a solid and productive working relationship with the CTC going back to 2007. They never guaranteed any results nor made any glorious claims. They just did what they said they would and charged us a reasonable fee that we were glad to pay. They have been very useful and have great resources that are hard to come ** in Asia – not just China. My next point is that Mystery Guest keeps makes different accusations. First he claimed the CTC was just recently created, based on his own creative assumption that the new .org website hosted in America was the CTC’s first. When people pointed out links of news articles and press releases about the CTC going back to 2008 in other posts, instead of admitting he was wrong, Mystery Guest goes about trying to delete those articles and ads with phony abuse reports, and apparently was very successful! I wonder if he used to work for the Chinese government who does this sort of unethical “trail censorship” daily. If Mystery Guest was not so bent on deleting the CTC’s many old ads and links from 2008, 2009, .etc, he would ** now know the address of the old .cn website which was down more than up! But still 7 of more than 50 remain on line to disprove his initial assertions. (See previous posts of CTC-Beijing and others above for these links to People’s Daily, CRI Radio, etc.) So next, Mystery Guest plays down that accusation and then starts making “Immigration fraud charges” based on an old ad of a law firm published in a 2010 CTC promotional flyer. The CTC investigated his claim, and promptly deleted the ad until they could obtain a legal opinion. So, now our “Mystery Guest” starts ranting about “copyright infringement” over free and paid lists collected from multiple sources, including Ms. Chin of Singapore on the internet! Instead of being grateful to the CTC for collecting, combining, and deduplicating everyone’s list including some 20,000 of their own CTC listings that even include email addresses of the scammers, Mystery Guest chooses to slam them with a ridiculous copyright claim that legally, actually belongs to nobody but the party that makes the final compilations and updates – the CTC. (I got this directly from the mouth of my own attorney this morning) When the CTC clarifies and rectifies that copyright issue, “Mystery Guest” aka “Shuecraft” apparently launches an all-out attack on CTC’s website and suddenly Kevin tells me they are getting over 5,000 spam emails a day and VOIP calls every 2 minutes from autodialers originating from two IP addresses that are located less than 5 miles from the below registered address of Mystery Guest in Vancouver, Washington. P.O. Box 821650 Vancouver, WA 98682 US We are now helping the CTC to document the U.S. launched cyber attack, and attempted sabotage of the their web site. We expect a DNS attack may be next. If the CTC web site disappears, you will know that our malicious “Mystery Guest” succeeded in his scheme to eliminate an online competitor. In all fairness to Mystery Guest, there is a slight chance that he is not behind the attack but all the circumstantial evidence and timing points in his direction. The bottom line is that we personally know, and have cooperated with the China Trade Commission since 2007, and we are grateful for their past and present assistance. They do good and TIMELY work. We will continue to use them in the future whenever we have the need to find or investigate someone in China. When the next big Alibaba scandal stories breaks within the next 30-45 days, remember, remember what you read here today on September 4th, 2011. As for our “Mystery Guest” I submit that he has waaaaaaaaay too much time on his hands and he should take a vacation to Beijing to apologize to Kevin and the others, and then have a few beers with them. Maybe he’ll meet a nice Chinese girl who will give him better and more fun things to do than make problems for good hard, working people who get regular death threats even for exposing minor scams - like $25,000 bribes. I guess when the average salary is only $5,000 per annum, a $25,000 bribe is big deal in China. All things in life are relative I suppose. One last word of advice to your visitors: Stay clear of Alibaba.com and Made-In-China.com. You have a 40% chance of getting ripped buying there unless you have someone in China to inspect and approve your purchase, while it is being packed and shipped in their presence. The CTC did a huge report about these two outfits and everyone who is lured by those super loooooow prices will quickly look elsewhere after reading about Jack Ma and his band of Alibaba thieves."

Even my 12 year old son is asking me... "Can't this Due Diligence guy read?"

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[China Chick]

Hello?????

I am still trying to find out what all this fuss and heated arguments are about. Did the China Trade Commission cheat someone or what? I just spent like 30 minutes googling and did not turn up anything that suggests they did nothing more than have an argument with someone about copyright issues on blacklists. Am I missing something? Please explain what crime or scam they pulled off since I can find nothing linking them to anything illegal, immoral, or unethical.

Six years ago I met some CTC people in Hong Kong. I am posting it here in hopes that it can stop this bitter arguement...

As I explained in my original post a couple of weeks ago, my husband and I lived in China for five years from March of 2003 to just after the 2008 Olympics (one of my very best memories in life). We met two men from the China Trade Commission in Hong Kong in 2005 at the Peninsula Hotel. Both were in their mid 30s, and I remember that one of them also worked for Morgan Stanley. Sorry, I can't remember full names, but I probably still have their business cards some where. I only remember that one guy named Carl, was a Bill Murray look-alike and the other guy had Marine Corps tattoos on his muscular arms. (The guy with the muscles was also a bit of a flirt)

Both my husband and I had used their blacklists for 3-4 years but were a little miffed that the pricing structure has changed significantly. Yes, I also remember the old CTC .cn website and the reason I remember it is because it was a hit or miss ordeal logging on. That site was a pain in the ass because it was either blocked for days, or kept getting hijacked to some Chinese patriotic website with historic photos from the 1949 revolution! They do the same thing to porn sites.

I remember how clever the CTC was to fix the problem by disguising the web site as a chinese commercial site with one of the home page buttons linked to the black lists and other goodies. I guess the government censors must have caught on eventually?

Just now I looked at the web site and see that they added some new features I don't remember seeing before. But I can verify that we took our young daughter to see a CTC Santa Claus in 2007 and still have the free photo I got from them. We also took her to a free CTC Halloween party in 2006 but the costumes were so scary that my 4 year old refused to go in! So I am really curious to know now - what did the CTC do that is so horrible and why can't I find any victims on line complaining?

[Due Diligence]

Originally Posted by China Chick Yes, I also remember the old CTC .cn website and the reason I remember it is because it was a hit or miss ordeal logging on.

Well it would really help if you could post the name of the "old CTC .cn website that you remember.

[Due Diligence]

Dear Scam Patrol:

Oh I saw your post. What in there is verifiable? I didn't see anything at all. It's your story which is contradicted by what is on the internet, so I don't see why I should or anyone else should believe any of it. I certainly wouldn't go pay $5,000 to $10,000 to some organization whose website was registered three months ago based on what you have just said and I wouldn't advise anyone else to do so. That would be foolish. Why you are accusing of being someone else is odd. I could as easily accuse you of being Fred the Fed or China Chic. So what? Why do each of you say that China Trade Commission had an old .cn domain which you remember well because it was difficult to access, but no one simply names it.

There is something that is interesting in what you just re-posted for my benefit that makes me wonder how real China Trade Commission is. I notice they put out a free press release: China Trade Commission Victim Of Cyber Smear Scam By Vengeful Hacker Fraud

"CTC has simultaneously been targeted for slanderous comments made by an anonymous poster on various fraud forums."

An anonymous poster? All posters are anonymous. I mean some can say they are "Joe Blow", from "Okosmow" but since that can never be verified, they are anonymous. And "slanderous" comments? What? That China Trade Commission's domain was registered in July 2011 when the claim to have been created in 1996? Domain registration is public information and CTC states that they were created in 1996.

Oh, and their website was hacked!

"Today, Paul Zhang the Public Affairs Director of the CTC revealed that a malicious hacker with IP addresses traced to the Vancouver, Washington area was caught hacking into the web site"

Well that doesn't say much for GoDaddy's hosting if its that easy to hack into it. I won't use them for hosting services. I would have thought someone with enough skills to hack into a website would at least hide their IP address. One of the links in the free press release is what you just posted: scams - View Single Post - List of Scam Websites

It says, among other things, “...suddenly Kevin tells me they are getting over 5,000 spam emails a day and VOIP calls every 2 minutes from autodialers originating from two IP addresses that are located less than 5 miles from the below registered address of Mystery Guest in Vancouver, Washington.
P.O. Box 821650
Vancouver, WA 98682
US"

So, let me get this straight, CTC traced these IP addresses to within 5 miles of a post office box in Vancouver, WA? So that's how they figured out who the "hacker" was! He lives in a post office box? With internet, power and indoor plumbing? I wonder how they get the idea that this was "Mystery Guest's" registered address in the first place? I'm still wondering, because I Googled the address and apparently it belongs to Privacy Post!

Yeah, well you can say anything in a free press release, and apparently some companies do. I'll certainly be skeptical of all their other press releases!