WORLD Law Direct Forums  





Go Back   WORLD Law Direct Forums > Real Estate & Property Law > Landlord vs Tenant Issues
REGISTER FAQ SEARCH Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Personal Lawyer Legal Forms Calendar

Landlord vs Tenant Issues Landlord and tenant issues, including rent, leases, non-payment, eviction, holdovers, summary proceedings, etc.

Guest or Tenants Where's the proof

Consult Your Own Personal Lawyer Now!
Reply
AddThis Feed Button
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 1 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old Jan 4th, 2008, 12:09 PM     #1
Unregistered
 
Unregistered's Avatar
 
Posts: n/a

Confused Guest or Tenants Where's the proof

My lease incorporates a provision outlining who may live in my property and that they may not sublet, etc.

It has a clause that specifies the time guests may stay.

This provision in my mind is nearly impossible to enforce. Unless you have 24 hour monitoring or you watch the place personally it is your word against a tenant as to how long a guest has been on the premises.

How would you actually go about providing proof to a judge that the guest has exceeded the time allowed?
  Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Powered by U.S. Legal Forms
Old Jan 4th, 2008, 02:36 PM     #2
Top Level Member
 
OHlandlord's Avatar
 
Last Online:
Jul 23rd, 2008 10:34 AM
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: southern OH
Posts: 579

Default Re: Guest or Tenants Where's the proof

Good question. This is one of the gray areas of a lease. Enforcing the extra occupants clauses are difficult. The easiest thing is to non-renew the tenant who is violating the clause when his lease expires. This ends the problem completely.

To prove extra occupants, there are several ways to document this.
1) Are they receiving mail in the occupants name at the residence? (This is important because US postal regulations say you may only receive mail at your residence or at an approved postal facility -like a PO box somewhere.) Document by either checking with the mailman, the post office, or if the mail comes into a common area to be sorted into apartment boxes.
2) Is the occupant's car frequently parked at the residence for long periods? (Dated & timed photos of the car at the residence.)
3) Is the occupant seen coming and going to the unit when the tenants are not home? Does he have his own key? (Document this with a log of dates & times. You can also photograph anyone outside the unit in common areas.)
4) Are any utility bills in his name? (Check with the utility companies.) Is there an increase in utility usage if you pay the bill?
5) Statements from neighbors or other tenants in the building.
6) Give notice of an inspection (if permitted by your state law). Go in and inspect the entire unit, checking for water leaks in the ceilings, signs of rodents, electrical problems, plumbing problems, check furnace filters, smoke detector batteries - a complete inspection. You will need to open closets and cabinets to do this (but not drawers or doors of their personal furniture). Look for signs that the occupant lives there. (personal effects, clothes, hygiene items in the bathroom, shoes, items that could only belong to the occupant.) For instance, if the tenant is male and the occupant female, it would be hard to mistake feminine products for his: perfume, hygiene items, hose, undergarments, shoes & clothes that would not fit him, etc.
7) You can also check common areas for signs of the extra occupant - shoes left outside the door, clothing left hanging to drip dry in the laundry, etc.
8) You may install cameras for security purposes in common areas - entrances, exterior porches, stairwells, etc. (Once they see these and know you suspect an unauthorized occupant, the occupant usually disappears.)
9) Finally, you have the right to know who is staying in your property in many states. Many large complexes require tenants to register guests and complete a form giving their personal information along with anticipated dates of stay. (In this age of criminals, identity theives, and sex offenders, this is becoming more common in some areas. This is for the protection of the other residents, the occupants of the tenant's unit in case of emergency, and so that the guest's vehicle is not towed accidentally as an unregistered vehicle.)

To sum up, it is difficult to prove. The easiest thing is to just non-renew at the end of the lease. But if it continues despite warnings and you want to document these items, it would be hard for a judge to ignore your logs of dates and times, statements from neighbors, photos of the car, inspection reports, utility statements, and the US postal service delivery. Personally, it only becomes a problem for me when I am paying for the utilities (extra water & electric costs), if the tenant is on an aide program that prohibits (& jeopardizes) their rent assistance if they do this, or if the extra occupant is causing problems (parking, noise, fights, overcrowding, etc.). Otherwise, if they are quiet, respectful of tohers, and cause no problems, I just have them register as a guest and forget it.
OHlandlord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 8th, 2008, 12:37 PM     #3
Unregistered
 
Unregistered's Avatar
 
Posts: n/a

Thumbs Up Re: Guest or Tenants Where's the proof

Thank you for a very concise answer and yes I do pay some of the utilities so it is important to me.

The other issue to me is that I have one bedroom units with a two person occupancy and if I allow one person to have more people living in the unit than is allowed by their lease I have no recourse to limit others because I have allowed it and yes by the accepted definition I can limit my occupancy to two.

One issue that was evident is that he has a key, but other people have told me I can not regulate who has a key. I decided to write in my lease that tenants must give me the name address and phone number of anyone they give a key to for "safety issues" and if they do not they are assumed to have sublet the premises, which is a breach of my contract.

I am in Idaho and they say nothing on these subjects, just to address them in your contract. I believe they will fly do you.
  Reply With Quote
Old Jan 8th, 2008, 12:51 PM     #4
Unregistered
 
Unregistered's Avatar
 
Posts: n/a

Default Re: Guest or Tenants Where's the proof

Wow good answer here

I have the same issue and will take this advice.

Jason
  Reply With Quote
Old Jan 8th, 2008, 01:41 PM     #5
Top Level Member
 
OHlandlord's Avatar
 
Last Online:
Jul 23rd, 2008 10:34 AM
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: southern OH
Posts: 579

Default Re: Guest or Tenants Where's the proof

Why couldn't you regulate who has a key to your unit? The unit is for the residency of the tenants listed on the lease. If others have the key, they can be held responsible for anything that happens at their unit (ie- burglary, theft, damages, etc.) since they have handed over a key to someone else. (The person with the other key could have done it.)

Additionally, if this is in a multi-unit house and one of the keys is for a common area, they have allowed others to enter this area. If another tenant is assaulted in there (or robbed), they could be held responsible. You provided a secure common area. They bypassed the security and risked others by giving the key to an unauthorized person. You screen the occupants to screen out undesirable types (criminal backgrounds). If they give someone else a key, you have no chance to screen these people.

You can demand the name and info on anyone who has another key, or have "DO NOT COPY" placed on the tenant's keys when you hand them out. If they need another copy, they need to come to you to get one.

And, as I said, having their own key, and coming and going when the tenant is not there, is one sign of occupancy. Combined with other evidence, you can make a good case.

One other thing - one of the ways to avoid this in the first place is to define a "guest" and an "occupant" in the lease, and put a maximum combined limit on the number of days (total) that any and all guests may stay at the tenant's unit. I allow tenants to have a guest for either 3 days a month (if on month to month) or 10 - 20 days (if a lease, depending on the building, and the length of the lease) total during the term of the agreement. Anyone staying more than that amount, whether in one period, or over several visits, needs to be registered as a long-term guest. Most tenants have no problem when I explain it this way. They can have out of town relatives or a friend come and stay with them for more than the limit if they register them with me (giving arrival and departure dates). Otherwise, it is listed in my lease that this is a material breach of the lease and is cause for eviction. I also will tow the guest's car if it is parked on the property and they have overstayed the limit (or have not registered the vehicle).

I am reasonable about this. If they get a new BF or GF, they can register the person easily to stay there. They just fill out a form and turn it in. (I do have the tenants pay all utilities, so this isn't a problem.) If they break up, they can give me a departure date for the other person. If it becomes serious, they can be added to the lease. It helps too if the neighbors are friendly with you. (They will call you and tell you when someone else is staying there.)

Last edited by OHlandlord : Jan 8th, 2008 at 01:54 PM.
OHlandlord is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Add Forum to Google Toolbar | Format Your Messages

Posting Rules

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
TRESSPASSING VS GUEST?? PLEASE HELP ktsmurray Landlord vs Tenant Issues 1 Aug 24th, 2008 09:15 PM
Guest Unregistered Landlord vs Tenant Issues 1 Jul 18th, 2008 12:53 AM
Length of guest stay--PA ekw122 Landlord vs Tenant Issues 4 Jul 8th, 2008 09:30 AM
No guest clause, verbal agreements? Unregistered Landlord vs Tenant Issues 3 Jan 23rd, 2008 11:28 AM
Guest vs Occupant Unregistered Landlord vs Tenant Issues 5 Jan 8th, 2008 09:47 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:58 PM.


Powered by U.S. Legal Forms

Subscribe

Use of the Forums is subject to our Disclaimer which prohibits unapproved advertisements, solicitations or other commercial messages, and false, harassing or abusive statements. All postings reflect the views of the author but become the property of WORLD Law Direct.

Questions and information submitted in the Forums are assumed inquiries for general information and not legal advice.

Copyright 2000-2008 by WORLDLawDirect.com, Inc.