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| Landlord vs Tenant Issues Landlord and tenant issues, including rent, leases, non-payment, eviction, holdovers, summary proceedings, etc. |
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#1 |
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Posts: n/a
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I moved in with a friend six months after her boyfriend dumped her and left her with the apartment that she couldn't afford by herself. We split the rent in half with both of us paying with money orders directly to the landlord in her name because she was unable to write checks due to bouncing two in the past (so neither she or I have any proof that I paid any rent to her or to the landlord). After a while, I couldn't deal with the living situation, so I told her that I would be moving out. I gave her two months to find a new roomie just to be fair (since we had no formal agreement about the apartment as she never had my name placed on the lease and didn't remove her ex's either). Eventually she decided to just move into a one bedroom apartment under another person's in the same community (because the landlord wouldn't grant her a transfer), so I ended up keeping the apartment until I found an apartment for myself. I also loaned her a large sum of money for her to use towards her security deposit for her new apartment because I knew she couldn't afford to move at that time and I would just move out later on.
Not long after, I ended my friendship with her due to issues that had nothing to do with the apartment. She now HATES me. Soon after the dissolution of our friendship, I gave her 32 day notice, via email, that I would be vacating the apt. I've been in my own apartment for two months, and her landlord is now claiming that two months rent was not paid (the month before I moved and the month after because they are claiming that notice wasn't given in time) and is charging for basically anything and everything else that he can. My former friend at first told me I was responsible for the entire amount that they are charging her (well over $2000), but I explained to her in detail why the charges were bogus, and that I would only pay what could be proven in court was liable. She then told me that she is not returning the money I loaned her because of the way I left the aparment when I moved out! Meaning I am at a loss of the money I loaned her PLUS she expects me to come out of pocket more for these bogus charges. I've asked her repeatedly to argue these charges with the landlord/attorney, but she refuses saying she knows that they are right and I should just pay her! She is now taking me to small claims court to sue for non payment of rent (I'm assuming, the claim on the summons doesn't clarify exactly what she is suing for). Per the summons, she is using our email correspondence regarding the charges as evidence against me. Am I really going to have to pay this outrageous amount? I can't fight this with the landlord/attorney myself because my name was never on the lease, only hers and her ex's (the bill she sent to me has their names on it). I really don't care about losing the money I gave to her, I just want her out of my life for good! Also, was it my responsibility to give her landlord notice that she was vacating? I had offered to do so, not knowing the express terms of her lease, and apparently the notice I hadfor her was turned in late. Does that make me liable or does that make her liable because it was her lease with the landlord? |
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#2 |
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Top Level Member
Last Online:
Jul 23rd, 2008 10:34 AM Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: southern OH
Posts: 579
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If the lease was in her name, then you took over possession of the unit, you were subleasing the unit. As such, you are liable to your LL (her) for any unpaid rent, damges to the unit, etc. In turn, she is liable to the actual LL for these amounts. So he bills her and she you. That's how subletting works.
Did you pay your rent for the month before you moved? To whom? Do you have a receipt (even MOs have a receipt/stub) to prove you paid it? When was your rent due and when did you give her the 32 day notice? Some states, by their laws, are "term" states, meaning that the notice has to be given on or before the next rental period to be effective. If your rent was due on the 1st, and you gave notice on the 2nd, that notice doesn't become effective until the 1st of the NEXT month. The 30 days would start on that day. So your 32 day notice would actually only be a 4 day notice (the 28 remaining days of the month would not count, as your notice wouldn't be effective until the 1st again). You would still owe rent for the next month to cover the required 30 day notice period. So when was rent due and when did you give notice? As for the other charges, I assume they are for damages. Exactly what is he trying to charge her for (and she you)? You referenced, "because of the way I left the apartment when I moved out!" How did you leave the apartment? Did you clean it well? (Carpets, appliances, vacuum & sweep, leave trash, what?) I can only guess that the LL did not like the way you left the unit. It is your duty as the subleasor to return the unit clean, with only wear & tear. You were in sole possession of the unit at that time. Please post what damages she is seeking reimbursement for. Finally the money trail. She may have kept a log of what MOs you gave her for rent, along with the dates, numbers, etc. She may have proof you paid her. She also could have copied the MOs you gave her, before she sent them to the LL. Then, after she left, did you send them directly to the LL or to her? (And if this was a complex, the neighbors all know you lived there and she didn't.) Were any of the utilities in your name? This will prove residency for a court. If you were the resident, the damages left may be yours. In return, do you have any proof of the money you loaned her? Can you document it in some way? If so, countersue her for the loan money. If you can prove you loaned it to her and she didn't repay it, then any money she gets for the damages can be offset by the amount of the loan she didn't repay you for. Please post items of damage she is sueing for, and I can narrow them down. |
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#3 |
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Posts: n/a
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Rent was due on June 1st and I gave her notice (via email) on May 29th. No money was ever paid directly to her, all rent was paid to the rental office in their mail drop, as management did not know that I was the ever living in that apartment (even before she moved out, they thought it was still her and her ex occupying the apt). He thought she was still living there and had he known that she was subletting, he would have had us all evicted from his property (she is still living on the property under a lease that is in her mom's name and her mother currently resides in another state and has never occupied the apartment she is in right now) due to past problems he's had with her calling housing authority on him. She has no copies of any of the MO receipts, and all of the money orders were paid in her name only, not mine. so there is no record of me ever paying her or the rental office for occupying this apartment. The emails she has does state, however, that I paid rent in June by my own admission.
As far as our neighbors, she is still living on the property, so they wouldn't have noticed that she moved to another apartment. The damages/charges they are seeking are for June and July rent, full replacement of the carpet, replacement of the smoke detector (she removed this before she left the apartment), replacement of the blinds, replacement of a window screen (she removed), trash removal and disposal, general cleaning, and keys (I returned my set of keys directly to the rental office when I vacated the apt). They are also suing for court costs for having to file non-payment of rent for July. There is no pre-move in or post move-out inspection to speak of, so she has no actual proof of the damages. The apartment was left in decent condition, and I told her that we did leave an air conditioner in the unit because it was too heavy to carry and that I would pay for the trash removal. The total she is suing me for, however, is different than the original amount she told me it was. She has given me 3 different payment amounts so I have no clue exactly what she is suing for. The only thing I can think of for sure she is suing me for July rent because the rental office wasn't given sufficient notice that the apartment would be empty. I did drop a letter off to the rental office with her name on it giving notice after hours on the first, but she never took any actions to put in notice to her own landlord herself according to the terms of the lease she has with them after I told her I was leaving. All utilities were included with rent. The only thing in my name was the cable after she moved out. If I gave her 30 day notice, does the same rule apply as far as seeking for payment of damages as it would with a regular landlord? I moved out June 30th, but she didn't give me notice of any damages until July 31st. Doesn't she have 14 days to deliver this to me (meaning I should have gotten a list of damages from her by July 15th)? Also, the claim she filed states that I moved out BEFORE she did (I don't know if she did this by accident or if she did it because she could get evicted for living where she is living currently because the landlord does not want her on the property), can I get this dismissed based on that fact alone? The only proof I have that I loaned her money is an email where I ask for her to return the money to me, and she agreed that she would give me the money back once she received the security deposit back from her landlord. She stated that if that was not sufficient, she would pay me sooner. Thanks for helping! |
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#4 |
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Top Level Member
Last Online:
Jul 23rd, 2008 10:34 AM Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: southern OH
Posts: 579
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You were the resident in the unit. Proof of this is in your own e-mail stating you paid rent, and the fact that utiltities (cable) was in your name. No one would have a utility in their name if they didn't live there. So residency has been established. And don't fool yourself into thinking that the office was completely ignorant of the fact that you lived there. (We PM aren't that dumb. We see the signs of a new tenant. We just don't always take action on it if they cause no problems. There are too many units to nitpick at every lease violation.) And don't you think the neighbors noticed she no longer came and went out of that apartment, but a new occupant (you) did? Of course they did. And you were the one who turned the keys into the office at move out, remember? So they knew. But they don't pursue you, they pursue who they signed with, and she has to pursue you.
About the rent. When was the lease to expire on the unit? (The July rent may be a lease break fee if the lease was still in effect. If so, and you had no written agreement with her, this fee is hers to pay.) If dropped a note off to the office on the 1st ( I assume in her name?), they should have no reason other than a lease break fee to pursue July's rent UNLESS the lease required 60 days notice, instead of 30. You need to check this out. Some states also require 60 days notice to vacate, instead of 30. Check your state laws for this. (30 is just the average.) Did you pay June's rent? If not, you owe that and any late fees. About damages, the complex cannot get full replacement value of the carpet, from you or from her. Not legal. They have to charge you a prorated amount for the carpet (which is determined by its age and the length of time they use on their taxes for it's depreciation). How long did the two of you live in the unit altogether? Was the carpet new when she signed the lease? Was the carpet ruined when you moved out? Why? How did it get ruined? Did you attempt to clean it when you left? Examples: 1) If the carpet was new when she moved in, and you left the unit 2 yrs after she first took occupancy, the most they could charge for carpet costs would be 5/7 of the cost. Most places depreciate carpet for 7 yrs on their taxes (the IRS allows you to use anywhere from 5-10 yrs though, but 7 is the norm.) 2 yrs of the carpet were already used up through your tenancy, so it had a life span of 5 yrs left. If it was ruined, they could charge 5/7 (71%) of the cost. 2) If the carpet was 4 yrs old when she moved in, and you moved out a yr later, they could only charge for 2/7 (28 1/2%)the cost of the carpet. You need to challenge this amount. Other damages : If she took the smoke detector & removed the window screen, she pays for them. Why did the blinds need replaced? Were they broken? Stained from smoking? If you broke them, or you were smoking, you pay. If you failed to clean properly at move out and left items in the unit, you pay for this. Was she issued more than one set of keys? If so, she pays for failing to return the other set if she did not give them to you. While you are checking the state law, look to see how many days a LL has to return an itemized statement of damages for a deposit. (Where did you get the 14 day time limit from?) This length MAY not apply to a sublettor though. The tenant on the lease has to get the statement from the LL first, then send it to you. Since your LL is the actual tenant, she can't make this statement as she doesn't own the property, cannot get estimates of damages, etc. She has to wait to recieve it from her LL. I don't understand how the claim of moving out first has any bearing on this at all. As long as your move out date is correct, and you were a resident there, I can't see what effect that has. It's probably just a mistake. You should file a counterclaim. You have an e-mail from her admitting to this loan. IT may be admissable in court (but is not accepted by all courts). Can't hurt to try and limit any money you will end up paying. |
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#5 |
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Posts: n/a
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Actually, the property manager would have promptly evicted her if he had known she had violated the terms of her lease. They had been having an ongoing battle since before I had moved in and he literally told her if he found ANYTHING that she was doing wrong, he would immediately take her to court (reasoning is stated in another part of this reply). The reason why he never noticed or paid any attention to me being there was because 1) he was rarely on the property and 2) my boyfriend lived in the same complex and I would often spend the night at his apartment, so it was not uncommon for me to be there. He also never paid attention to evidence of another tenant because, as I said, her boyfriend signed the lease with her. When he left, he never got his named signed off on the lease, so he is still listed as a resident on it and was assumed to still be living there. I did return my set of keys, but they were returned to the rental office after hours so no one was there when I returned them.
Also, she moved literally next door to me, so neighbors saw her come and go as they would have if she still lived in the same unit I did. The original lease expired about 5 months after I moved in. She never renewed it, and it became a month to month tenancy. I did pay June rent, which is what I admitted to paying in the email. I have no clue if the carpet was new when she moved in. I know it wasn't when I moved in because I moved in 7 months after she moved in, so when we moved out, it was at least 3 years old (I lived with her for a year and a half and by myself for 8 months). I asked her to get information regarding the useful life of the carpet as well as how much was paid for the original carpet, but she has yet to produce this information. The carpet was cleaned before I moved out of the apartment. She said there were "smoke stains" in the carpet, but I don't smoke so I have no clue where that came from (and I have no clue what "smoke stains" are, only smoke burns). They gave no reason for replacing the blinds. I know they were not broken, but they were old, so that may be the reason he had them replaced. I would assume that she did get two sets of keys since two of them signed the lease. I know I returned one set of keys so I don't think I should be responsible for paying for a set that she didn't return. Maryland Law states the landlord has 14 days to give an itemized list of damages. She is being charged for July rent because notice was not given as stated in her lease. Apparently she was supposed to give notice during office hours on or before the first, and this was not done. They therefore stated her notice to vacate was not valid for a move out at the end of June, only for July. I'd also like to say that she is not dealing with the most honest property manager. He tried to have her evicted by sending bogus claims to the court that she had to fight on a continuous basis (he would claim she didn't pay rent hoping she wouldn't show up to court and she would have to show up to court to prove rent was paid). He also threatened to evict her after he got fined from the housing authority for not replacing a broken front door after the apartment was robbed (twice). I actually heard this specific threat. This is another reason why I decided to just move out. If he were to evict, she would not fight it, and it would have been me and my son out on the street, and she would still have a place to live. I guess the bottom line is her landlord is trying to screw her over and in turn she is trying to screw ME over. If she and I were still friends, we would be fighting this tooth and nail together, as we have done in the past with this landlord. Since she pretty much despises me, she figures whatever they charge her for, she can make me pay, and not have to pay a dime herself. Thanks again for all your help! Please keep it coming! |
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#6 |
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Top Level Member
Last Online:
Jul 23rd, 2008 10:34 AM Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: southern OH
Posts: 579
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I'm guessing you are young. We PMs use the threat of tossing people out all the time to keep them in line. (Yes, I'm letting the cat out of the bag.) Truth be known, he knew he couldn't toss her out and have her evicted that easy for you living there. Evicting on non-payment of rent is easy. Trying to do this on a unauthorized occupant is much, much harder and the PM knew that. It requires much more work. I'll bet you anything that they knew you were there. But it was too much work to do all the required documentation (and besides he was probably happy to see her go). And you weren't causing any problems - no cops/wild parties, and rent was being paid. Why rock the boat? It really doesn't matter though. He can't come after you for any damages, only her.
The key charge should be hers. I don't get the smoke stains charge either. Ask for more clarification on this. The smell of smoke can be removed from carpet. There has to be more to this charge. If the carpet could not be cleaned or repaired, the charge for the carpet should be about 57% of the cost (depreciated value should be about 4 yrs out of 7), not full replacement cost. Blinds that are old, but not broken should be W&T, not damages. Not chargeable. Maryland law to itemize and return a deposit is not 14 days unless this has changed in the last year. My book says it is 30-45 days depending on eviction or abandonment. You recieved your statement 31 days later. While this is one day late, it could have been held up in the mail and is probably close enough for a judge to allow it to slide. Sending that statement that close to the timeline likely shows a good faith effort on her part in many courts. Month to month tenancies usually only require 30 days of notice to vacate, almost everywhere. This is good news for you. That requirement to give notice during the "office hours" may not hold up in court. State law says nothing about notices must be given during office hours. Most state that notices must be given on or before the beginning of the term. If it was given on the first (even after hours) that should meet the state requirement. I would think that this (and the extra month of rent) could be challenged too. It really is a shame that the two of you couldn't lay your differences aside long enough to fight these charges. Some of them are really bogus. The two of you could save yourself hundreds of dollars. |
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#7 |
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Posts: n/a
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I'll try not to take offense to the young comment, lol. It's just he's tried so many other ways to have us evicted, or to get extra money out of us (like suddenly charging for utilities when the lease says utilities included) that I'm not sure what he's capable of doing. The man is really a lowlife!
I also agree completely that most of the charges are bogus. That is what I told her, but unfortunately because she is just an angry, sad person, she won't listen to logic and reason. She only wants to hurt me and feels like she can do so in this way. I asked her to clarify about the smoke stains and she just repeated that there were smoke stains. I even told her that unless there were burn marks in the carpet, the carpet was covered under normal wear and tear. Again she comes back with the smoke stain excuse. I also told her to challenge the whole notice needs to be given during office hours only. This was a requirement of the PM because he apparently got a LOT of notices that month after hours because people basically were tired of living under his management. He ended up telling everyone that none of their notices were valid. Her letter is dated the first, and I sent her a copy of it. I know that more than likely the landlord would lie and say he never received it, but it would be his word against hers, and I really believe she would have won that. But she thought she could get the money out of me for that extra month... Thanks for all your responses. They have really helped me cover my basis and I feel I have a strong case to take before the judge! |
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