landlord got carpet cleaned then decided to replace carpet

[hwannie143]

Hi All,

I was hoping to get some help with this situation that I've been dealing with for about a month now. I am in San Diego, California.

I recently moved out of a unit that I had been renting for 23 months. When I moved out, I left the unit in better condition than it was when my husband and I moved in. The carpet was brand new when we moved in (delayed our move-in because he said the last tenants damaged the carpet and needed to replace it last minuite). We had a professional carpet cleaner come in to steam clean the carpet a few days before we turned over the keys.

The day I handed over the keys (I had paid until the 9th and turned in the keys one day early), he verbally said everything looked great. However, he did not bring a move-out inspection sheet for us to sign. I should've taken pictures, but we were so busy with the move and new jobs that we simply ran out of time.

The next morning, he texts me saying the "new tenant" complained of pet odor and that he would need to get the carpet cleaned again and would keep me posted on costs. He didn't give me an option to have the carpet cleaning company I used to come back and remedy the issue. I asked him why he didn't say anything about "pet odor" during the walkthrough and his excuse was that the windows were open and that he smells "baby ****" all day so he tolerates all smell. This makes no sense as those two things smell differently. I also told him that he had been over to our unit several times and we never open the windows yet he has never mentioned this to us (nor have any visitors mentioned this). Of course, he ignored these comments from me. Our dog is about 6 years old and is litter box trained and the litter box is kept in the bathroom (tiled).

He then comes back to me days later saying the carpet cleaner they used found several urine stains under blacklight and that the 2nd carpet cleaning did not get rid of the smell. He sent me the receipt for the carpet cleaning ($175) and said he would have to get the carpet replaced and would provide receipts. He never told me exactly where the stains are even though I asked several times. I would just get a general "all over the place" type answer. His wife also threatened to take US to court just because I was asking for some type of proof and that I was wasting their "precious time". And that they wouldn't be able to rent to non-pet owners anymore because of the dander left in the carpet.

I waited for 21 days to pass after we moved out and even gave an extra few days in case receipts were "in the mail" but nothing came. (I figured they would know better since they're both in the real estate industry and this is also stated in our lease) So a few days ago I wrote him a letter and sent it via certified mail requesting the remaining of my $1500 deposit as the only receipt I received from him was for the carpet cleaning. He received that letter yesterday and today I received an email from him with the carpet replacement receipts. He said that I still owe him $30 as the $1500 deposit did not cover the total cost of $1530 for carpet cleaning ($175) and carpet replacement ($1355). I noticed on the receipt for carpet replacement that the price increased from $1290 to $1355 as a 4x4 vinyl flooring by the entry was also replaced. He didn't mention anything about needing to change the entry way flooring - not during the move-out walkthrough or through any of the emails we exchanged.

I have a two part question:
(1) Can he charge me for BOTH carpet cleaning AND replacement? I thought this was a bit unfair to charge for both (not to mention he didn't give me the option to have my guy come out again and try cleaning it again... most services will give you your money back if not satisfied with their cleaning
(2) Can he charge me for the entire cost of carpet replacement? I read that most landlords will only charge the depreciated value for the carpet, but found that this is not backed up by the law. I feel like since we lived there for 2 years, we should only pay for 80% of the cost of carpet replacement (8 years remaining).

Thanks for reading and I appreciate any help that I can get. This has been giving me a headache for the last month.

On a side note, this landlord did the same thing to the prior tenants. I found them and we spoke of our experiences and pretty much the exact same thing happened. But our mistake for not taking pictures and not having proof of the condition after we moved out...

Also, in our lease agreement (signed 2 years ago) it states our right to a pre-move out inspection. However, when we gave him our notice to vacate, he didn't notify us again of that right. I read online that by law, it is required that he notify us AFTER we give our notice. Is this true? I mentioned this to him and he chose to ignore my comment... he's selective in what he responds to and refuses to answer our calls, only responds via email...

[AFFA]

I wish to inform you that landlord may not charge you for both carpet cleaning and carpet replacement. At present their new tenant have come and damage to carpet could have been done by new tenant. Therefore you can inform landlord that you cannot be charged for carpet because no claims were put when you had moved out and now new tenant have come. Further carpet has to be changed then cleaning expense s not required and you cannot be charged for negligence of landlord. If you have receipt from professional from whom you were getting your carpet cleaned then this will enable you to prove carpet was not damaged. The landlord must give the tenant written notice of the tenant's right to request an initial inspection of the rental and to be present during the inspection. As landlord had failed in this so you can now object to charges. Lastly you can be held liable only for remaining valued and not cost of new carpet. You can give reply in writing and mention all facts so that you can have evidence.

AFF

[hwannie143]

When I objected to having to pay for BOTH carpet cleaning and carpet replacement his response was: " I am in disagreement for not taking your stance on the cost of the carpet cleaning refund. If the solution was successful with the steam cleaning and if the pet deodorizer worked, we wouldn’t be in the position to replace the carpet. However, we have to replace the carpet."

He did give us a notice in regards to our right to a pre-move out inspection at the beginning of our lease (May 2010), but he never gave us a notice about this when we gave him our notice to vacate. Does this count as giving us notice if he gave it 2 years ago? I'm reading conflicting information about when the notice for inspection needs to be given by the landlord..

Originally Posted by hwannie143 When I objected to having to pay for BOTH carpet cleaning and carpet replacement his response was: " I am in disagreement for not taking your stance on the cost of the carpet cleaning refund. If the solution was successful with the steam cleaning and if the pet deodorizer worked, we wouldn’t be in the position to replace the carpet. However, we have to replace the carpet." He did give us a notice in regards to our right to a pre-move out inspection at the beginning of our lease (May 2010), but he never gave us a notice about this when we gave him our notice to vacate. Does this count as giving us notice if he gave it 2 years ago? I'm reading conflicting information about when the notice for inspection needs to be given by the landlord..

I believe CA law says that you have to follow up and schedule the inspection, and that all the LL has to do is offer it to you. He did give you notice. Is this also addressed anywhere in your lease or rental agreement?

You can always take him to court to recoup your losses. You will have to prove things, which would be helpful if you had photos. He will have to prove things too, ie. the stains found by the black light, etc. Maybe your little dog did have a few accidents, maybe not.

Seems fishy that the LL wouldn't provide you with proof, but he'll have to do so if he goes to court, and he could be liable for three times the damages--that means you would get three times the money owed you.

Carpet life in a rental--you may want to find out what your state says about normal carpet life, and then replacement would be based on how much life is left in the carpet. As to cleaning before replacing, well, he did his due diligence to try and get out the stains and dander. Seems unfair to you, though, that he didn't prove things. He may want to avoid court esp since he has a history of pulling this stuff--you may want to bring the former tenants as witness to your stance?

[Friend In Court]

The carpet cleaning company should be able to back you up about the condition of the carpet and the efficacy of their cleaning, lack of odor, etc.

Yes, a walk through is a necessity and I, for one, would never turn over keys and leave a place without it. AND take photos. But that is neither here nor there now.

The landlord appears to be remodeling the place at your expense and all you needed to do was leave it in good condition, save normal wear and tear. Unless he put in the lowest grade carpet on the market, carpeting should last 10 years or more, even with heavy use. Contact your carpet cleaning company and have them support your contention it was clean and odor-free. Then make your claim in small claims court if he refuses to return the rest of your deposit.

[hwannie143]

The California Department of Consumer Affairs states that "One common method of calculating the deduction for replacement prorates the total cost of replacement so that the tenant pays only for the remaining useful life of the item that the tenant has damaged or destroyed. For example, suppose a tenant has damaged beyond repair an eight-year-old carpet that had a life expectancy of ten years, and that a replacement carpet of similar quality would cost $1,000. The landlord could properly charge only $200 for the two years' worth of life (use) that would have remained if the tenant had not damaged the carpet."

However, there is no law saying he has to follow this and that the tenant is only responsible for the remaining useful life of the carpet. I had already brought to his attention that I am only responsible for the remaining life on the carpet but he just ignores this every time I bring it up and says I owe him the whole amount for carpet replacement. This is driving me nuts! Already has our $1500 deposit and still wants another $30 to cover the entire cost? If we depreciated the carpet over 10 years, we'd still get some money back ($241). But he's just not budging on taking our entire deposit. I'm just trying to figure out how to even respond to horrible person. I've rented from 3 other private landlords and also from a management company and have never had to deal with this. We've always gotten our entire deposit back.

From talking to the previous tenants, they got nowhere with taking him to court - he didn't show and then threatened to countersue them. He never returned their money and they just cut their losses and moved on. They said it was better just to get him out of their lives than to deal with his nonsensical emails. They said to save our time and energy and just cut him out of our lives but at the same time I hate what he's doing! Ugh..

We definitely learned our lesson and will take pictures and get a sign off on the move-out walkthrough next time.

Thanks to everyone that's taking the time to read and respond to this. It helps me by letting this all out! And it's great to get advice from other people!

But he's just not budging on taking our entire deposit. I'm just trying to figure out how to even respond to horrible person.

How to respond to him? Surprise him.

If you don't want to take him to court -- and if you do, get the court documents for all the times he's puled this over on someone-- then call the newspapers and TV news. Most cities have a Consumer Bob type of person working for the TV news.

What on earth would this money-grubbing LL try to counter sue you for?

FWIW, I'd be making a call to my Consumer Bob-type person.

Forgot to mention... contact Michael Turko. He's the San Diego TV news consumer guy for "It ain't right" consumer stuff, and he's great!!!!

[hwannie143]

Originally Posted by Unregistered Forgot to mention... contact Michael Turko. He's the San Diego TV news consumer guy for "It ain't right" consumer stuff, and he's great!!!!

Thanks! I'll look into contacting him..

[hwannie143]

Just had to share his ridiculous response:

"I don't agree with your useful life rule and the proration of this rule. The bottom line is we bought new carpet. You knew it was new when you moved in. It needed to be replaced after the results of the ineffectiveness of steam cleaning. We replaced the carpeting and not 80% of the carpeting....."

It's like he chooses not to understand the standard useful carpet life rule...