Pathway-2-Prosperity - Pathway-2-Poverty - Pathway-2-Ponzi

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Pssstttt.... Hey dummy, look up.

LOL! Open mouth insert foot!! Ha Ha Ha

Originally Posted by Unregistered

you have shown no proof but lets put it another way that maybe your tiny brain can handle. Name any on line ponzis that has lasted more than 2 years with proof.

Are you suggesting an off line ponzi is more credible than an online ponzi?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

you have shown no proof but lets put it another way that maybe your tiny brain can handle. Name any on line ponzis that has lasted more than 2 years with proof.

try ASD , try 12dailypro, try Studio Traffic......

Originally Posted by Unregistered

try ASD , try 12dailypro, try Studio Traffic......

Longer than 2 years!!!!

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Are you suggesting an off line ponzi is more credible than an online ponzi?

I am suggesting ponzis that were done through the mail before computers were out were able to go longer. not near as many people joining as quickly and pay outs were done weekly. online ponzis grow large very quick and have to pay returns very quick. therefor they fizzle out very quick. Add compounding and they don't last more than 3 months unless its like dadndaves that paid 1% and only paid out monthly but still didn't last 2 years

[MRMIKE42]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I am suggesting ponzis that were done through the mail before computers were out were able to go longer. not near as many people joining as quickly and pay outs were done weekly. online ponzis grow large very quick and have to pay returns very quick. therefor they fizzle out very quick. Add compounding and they don't last more than 3 months unless its like dadndaves that paid 1% and only paid out monthly but still didn't last 2 years

FOR EZ TARGET: Read the above post and learn.

Obviously I was not clear about my challenge. I am not in any Romanian investment program, I'm in P2P and you asserted P2P was a Ponzi scheme. P2P is an online program and that is what's germane to this discussion, not some ages old corpse you dragged out. Now let's do this again....name any online Ponzi scheme lasting longer than two years. But what real difference does that make anyway? The real issue here is your charges that P2P is a Ponzi scheme. So name someone, anyone, just ONE person who has lost their money with P2P in the almost two years it's been active. That's what's really important anyway, not how long other so called Ponzi schemes have lasted. So let's have those names, EZ TARGET. We're waiting....c'mon! NAMES PLEASE!!!Remember, no names, no credibility.

And because he has no names, not even one, we're right back where we started with him being....an EZ TARGET.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Just about Every One in this list lasted more than 2 years....some 5 some, 7, some 20....The list rest of them can be found here: Ponzi scheme - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Enough proof? Just because it can survive for a long period of time does not mean that its legit. Just means that a.) you are dealing with a better conartist, or multiple ones (i.e. Nick, Gary); or b.) there are a bigger pool of suckers..i think both happen to be the case with P2P...

* In Romania, between 1991 and 1994, the Caritas scheme run by the "Caritas" company of Cluj-Napoca, owned by Ioan Stoica promised eight times the money invested in six months. It attracted 400,000 depositors from all over the country who invested 1,257 billion lei (about a billion USD) before it finally went bankrupt on 14 August 1994, having a debt of 450 million USD. The owner, Ioan Stoica was sentenced in 1995 by the Cluj Court to a total of seven years in prison for fraud, but he appealed and it was reduced to two years; then he went on to the Supreme Court of Justice and the sentence was finally reduced to one year and a half.

* Between 1970 and 1984 in Portugal, a woman known as Dona Branca maintained a scheme that paid 10% monthly interest. In 1988 she was sentenced to 10 years in prison. She always claimed that she was only trying to help the poor, but in her trial it was proven that she had received the equivalent of 85 million Euro.[3][4]

* In January 1984 Adriaan Nieuwoudt started a scheme with an apparent product in South Africa. Subscribers to the scheme were sent an "activator", that was used to grow "cultures" in milk, which was then sent back to the Kubus Kwekery for about 30% return on the money paid for the "activator". The Cape Supreme Court held that the kubus scheme was an illegal lottery.[5]

* Sixteen hundred investors in Diamond Mortgage Company and A.J. Obie, two firms with the same managers, lost approximately $50,000,000 in what the Michigan Court of Appeals described as "the largest reported 'Ponzi' scheme in the history of the state." It led to the passage in 1987 of the MBLSA(Mortgage Brokers, Lenders, and Servicers Act)."[6][7]

* MMM was a Russian company that existed in the 1990s. It involved at least two million people and collected as much as $1.5 billion before its collapse. Its founder was sentenced to 4.5 years in prison in 2003.

* From 1993 until 1997 a church named Greater Ministries International in Tampa, Florida, headed by Gerald Payne bilked over 18,000 people out of 500 million dollars.[8] Payne and other church elders promised the church members double their money back, citing Biblical scripture. However, nearly all the money was lost and hidden away. Church leaders received prison sentences ranging from 13 to 27 years.

* In late 1994, the European Kings Club collapsed, with ensuing losses of about $1.1 billion. This scam was led by Damara Bertges and Hans Günther Spachtholz. In the Swiss cantons Uri and Glarus, it was estimated that about one adult in ten invested into the EKC. The scam involved buying "letters" valued at 1,400 Swiss francs that entitled buyers to receive 12 monthly payments of 200 Swiss francs. The organisation was based in Gelnhausen, Germany[citation needed]

* In May 1995, Pennsylvania's attorney general moved to freeze the assets of the Foundation for New Era Philanthropy and its chairman, John G. Bennett, Jr. The organization had raised over $500 million from 1,100 donors. Participants, including the Red Cross, had believed they were participating in a matching-gifts program through New Era but, in fact, it was really a Ponzi scheme. Losses amounted to $135 million.

* In early 1996, the SEC filed a civil action against Bennett Funding Group, its chief financial officer, Patrick R. Bennett, and other companies Bennett controlled, in connection with a massive Ponzi scheme. The companies fraudulently raised hundreds of millions of dollars, purportedly to purchase assignments of equipment leases and promissory notes. [3]

* In the mid-1990s, Albania was transitioning into a liberalized market economy after years under a State-controlled economy reinforced by the cult of personality involving longtime Communist leader Enver Hoxha; the rudimentary financial system became dominated by pyramid schemes, and government officials tacitly endorsed a series of pyramid investment funds. Many Albanians, approximately two-thirds of the population, invested in them. By 1997 the inevitable end came: Albanians, who had lost $1.2 billion, took their protest to the streets where uncontainable rioting and attacks on government infrastructure led to the toppling of the government and the temporary existence of a stateless society before neighboring governments intervened militarily to protect their own investments, killing some 2,000 people. Although technically a Ponzi Scheme, the Albanian scams were commonly referred to as Pyramid Schemes both popularly and by the IMF.[9]

* In Slovakia, the so called non-banking institutions collected appx. 25 bil. SKK (1 bil. USD) from 300-350 thousand people. There were around 30 of these companies, such as BMG Invest and Horizont Slovakia, Drukos, AGW, 1. dôchodková, Sporoinvest and SaS. Mr. Fruni, the owner and director of both BMG and Horizont will sit 11,5 years in prison, according to the Court's judgement from April 2008.

* In the 1980s in San Diego, California, J. David & Company, an alleged currency and commodity trading and investing operation named after its founder, J. David Dominelli, a withdrawn and shy (and thus, presumably, "genius") currency and commodity trader, was revealed to be a Ponzi scheme which took in $200 million and returned $120 million to investors, leaving a net loss of $80 million, spent on the good life. The scheme touched all levels of upper class business and professional life in San Diego and environs, and involved the Mayor of Del Mar, California, a cozy upscale beach town just north of La Jolla, who was J. David's assistant and live-in companion, and others, including the prominent New York law firm Rogers & Wells (now Clifford Chance), which had advised J. David (through a rogue partner) and others[4][5]. [6][7][8] When the fall came, J. David briefly escaped to Montserrat in the Caribbean, but was returned ultimately to plead guilty to federal charges and receive 20 years' federal imprisonment[9].

* In 2000, a Ponzi scheme perpetrated by Scientology minister Reed Slatkin came unraveled when the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission regulators became aware that Slatkin was not a licensed investment adviser. Slatkin had raised some $600 million from over 500 wealthy investors, mostly Hollywood celebrities.

* In December 2005, in Los Angeles, California, Larry Toshio Osaki, who ran a gigantic Ponzi scheme and continued to offer bogus investments in accounts receivable "factoring" after being ordered to cease and desist by a Federal judge, was sentenced to 20 years in federal prison. In addition to the prison term, Judge Stephen V. Wilson ordered Osaki to pay more than $145 million in restitution to victims.

* In May 2006, James Paul Lewis, Jr. was sentenced to 30 years in federal prison for running a $311 million Ponzi scheme over a 20-year time period. He operated under the name Financial Advisory Consultants from Lake Forest, California

* In October 2006 in Malaysia, two prominent members of society and several others were held for running an alleged scam, known variously as SwissCash or Swiss Mutual Fund (1948). SwissCash offered a returns of up to 300% within a 15-month investment period. Currently, this HYIP investment is offered to citizens of Malaysia, Singapore, and Indonesia. It claimed investors’ funds were channeled to business activities ranging from oil exploration to shipping and agriculture in the Caribbean. The company claims to be operating out of New York and incorporated in the Commonwealth of Dominica.[10][11][12]

* On Friday 13 April 2007 a person named Sibt-e-Hassan Shah, aka "Double Shah," was arrested by government officials in Wazirabad, a small town of Pakistan.[13] Sibt-e-Hassan claimed to double investors' money within 30 days in the beginning of his scheme, later extended to 90 days. He is suspected to have gathered very large investments (approx US$ 1 Billion) in a very short time period.

* The Brothers was a large investment operation, eventually exposed as a Ponzi scheme, in Costa Rica from the late 1980s until 2002. The fund was operated by brothers Luis Enrique and Osvaldo Villalobos. Investigators determined that the scam took in at least $400 million. Most of the clientele were American and Canadian retirees but some Costa Ricans also invested the minimum $10,000. About 6,300 individuals ultimately were involved. Interest rates were 3% per month, usually paid in cash, or 2.8% compounded. The ability to pay such high interest was attributed to Luis Enrique Villalobos’ existing agricultural aviation business, investment in unspecified European high yield funds, and loans to Coca Cola, among others. Osvaldo Villalobos’ role was primarily to move money around a large number of shell companies and then pay investors. In May 2007 Osvaldo Villalobos was sentenced to 18 years in prison for fraud and illegal banking. Luis Enrique Villalobos remains a fugitive.[10]

* On Wednesday July 4, 2007, the Bangko Sentral ng Pilipinas and the Securities and Exchange Commission (Philippines) cited FrancSwiss Financial Co. as a Ponzi scheme which targeted Overseas Filipino Workers.

* On August 17, 2007, the Philippine National Bureau of Investigation filed syndicated estafa cases against 27 officers and investors of FrancSwiss Investment, a "Ponzi" pyramiding scam on the Internet. Charged were Michael Mansfield, chief financial officer; Kurt Sandelman, risk management team leader; Rupert Benedict Da Vinco, investment team leader; Julia Rodriguez, international banking team leader; Hector Willem Sidberg, marketing and international affairs; and Fernando Munoz, customer service leader; Roger Smith, the British chief operation officer of FS Investment in the Asia-Pacific region; Bensy Fong, the Singaporean system operation officer; Raymond Chua, Singaporean marketing officer; a certain Michelle and Mike, Filipino secretaries and collectors of money from investors; 16 investors, including arrested suspect Eleazard Castillo, 26, a native of Cabuyao, Ilocos Sur, allegedly one of the financial advisers of FrancSwiss Investment. 41 investors claimed they lost a total of $75,000 to the investment scheme. FrancSwiss deceived investors in the Philippines of P1 billion.[14]

* In the third and the biggest Philippines Ponzi scam (involving $150 million and $250 million), criminal charges, based on suit filed by 21,000 complainants were filed on June, 2008, with the Department of Justice, against against Performance Investments Products Corp (PIPC) officers and incorporators for violation of the Securities Regulation Code (SRC), versus: Singaporean national Michael H.K. Liew, PIPC president; Cristina Gonzalez-Tuason, general manager, and other officers and agents - Ma. Cristina Bautista-Jurado, Barbara Garcia, Anthony Kierulf, Eugene Go, Michael Melchor Nubla, Ma. Pamela Morris, Luis Aragon, Renato Sarmiento Jr., Victor Jose Vergel de Dios, Nicoline Amoranto Mendoza, Jose Tengco III, Oudine Santos and Herley Jesuitas.[15]

* On June 27, 2007 former boy band mogul and notorious con artist Lou Pearlman was indicted by a grand jury on several counts of fraud which is turning out to be one of the largest and longest running United States Ponzi schemes ever.[citation needed] His scheme lasted for over 20 years. The final total damage may rest somewhere near $500 million dollars.[16] Pearlman's scam involved bilking investors out of their savings with a fraudulent savings and loans program claiming it to be FDIC insured though it was not. On March 4, 2008, Pearlman agreed to plead guilty to charges of conspiracy, money laundering, and making false statements during a bankruptcy proceeding, and to testify for the prosecution of several accomplices, according to law enforcement officials. On May 21, 2008, Pearlman was sentenced to 300 months in jail with the stipulation that he could cut one month off his sentence for every $1 million dollars he paid his investors back.

I must apologize, I did not request, nor need a resent history of the Ponzi scheme. I asked for proof that an Internet Ponzi scheme has last for more than 2 years. Do you have any?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

try ASD , try 12dailypro, try Studio Traffic......

You named names, but offered no credible proof they lasted for more than two years. Post the proof!

Originally Posted by Unregistered

You named names, but offered no credible proof they lasted for more than two years. Post the proof!

Swiss Cash
Dad and Daves
Dxsynergy
Legisi
And many others

Do a search of any of the usual forums and find the dates that they started. Subtract the date when they ended = proof. Done. Any questions?

Originally Posted by MRMIKE42

Now let's do this again....name any online Ponzi scheme lasting longer than two years. But what real difference does that make anyway?

Uhhh, YOU are the one who asked the question and YOU are the one who cites the two years as being evidence against it being a ponzi (which is why you asked. Duh.)

And just FYI, P2P hasn't been around for two years yet either.