Binder and Binder -- what should I do?

Hi to everyone Thomas here, so many knowledgeable people on here maybe some one can advise me as I was set to call binder and binder but after reading all of this I`m afraid to now...I am disabled I have bi lateral facial palsy, compression of the nerves in the ear tubes very painful and the nerve damage is obvious to my face and how I am unable to control anything face related eyes, neck, nose, mouth etc, along with other things 2 heart attacks still 100% blocked in left artery so old they can`t remove the blockage. I went thru the cath procedure a yr ago, and chronic cluster headaches, but on the facial paralysis palsy my only diagnosis has been bells palsy that was 13 yrs ago, I worked up to last year though fighting my way through it, but now can`t hold my head up , eyes don`t work , can`t see and no focus or concentration and unfortunately I can`t drag my head and face like if it were a bad arm or leg, so I am really messed up, millions of people have bells palsy my problem is i have it in both sides bi-lateral , only 1% of the popluation has this they say it is very rare and it is known if you have this rare form it is probably not bells palsy but rather gullian barre or rosenthal syndrome or maybe another syndrome of several possible others,,and every doctor or hospital I have been to after says I don`t have bells palsy, they say that would`nt do this to me that bells palsy does`nt hang on this way ,, but they can`t tell me what I have,, they don`t say there is nothing wrong with me they say what I have is beyond them and their knowledge I don`t have the symptoms of the other syndromes mentioned above,,I have medical records mri`s, throat tests, cat scans, have been treated at several E.R`s they treat me like I have had a stroke until after test they realize I have not had one,,I`m afraid If I apply on my own I will be denied I have started the online process app for ssd but because of a so so kind of lame weak generic diagnoses and because bells palsy is something you can work and live with even though mine is beyond that and severly,,I`m a hard worker of 20+ yrs an artist in my trades with my hands and miss working very much,,but now I am about to be homeless and I am lost sorry to be so long winded any help or advice would be greatly appreciated Thanks Thomas TLB813@yahoo.com

Originally Posted by Mystery dude My impression from their commercials and talking to a rep on the phone: They seem like a big call center and I wouldn't expect very personalized service. The rep I talked with was being coached and didn't know what he was talking about. Looks like they make their money off of volume, and probably only take cases which are clear winners. Do some serious Googling and go back many pages to research them thoroughly. All attorneys will charge the maximum allowed, which is 25% of your award or $6,000 - whichever is greater. However, you only pay if you win.

You only pay the lesser of those figures, not greater!

my son is 19 and was diagnosed as a 6 year old child with asperger's. i tried then to get him benefits and was denied due to the fact that he was passing all his classes. now he's 19 and has tried several different jobs, and is so anxious and monotone that he gets let go fairly quickly. this has caused him extreme stress. he recently got a new therapist who recommended he get retested for a diagnosis, because she didn't feel asperger's was accurate. he got extensive testing done, and she was correct. he has been diagnosed with obsessive-compulsive personality disorder and social phobia. his therapist recommended we get a lawyer to assist us with applying for benefits. today i contacted binder and binder and they wouldn't take our case because my son doesn't have any money to "pay back" to his great grandparents, who are allowing him to live with them for free right now. hm. so my son has a diagnosis that automatically should qualify him - a personality disorder - and yet they refused to help us because basically there's not enough money in it for them. i am super ticked off. nice that they showed their true colors though, because it's obvious that if we DID have a lot of money on the table, they probably would have taken plenty of it for themselves.

I fought with The SSA for two years over my disability claim. I had, was even forced, to leave work due to health problems. My first filing netted me a denial of benefits. My second step appeal netted me yet another denial. My only recourse left was to take it before an appellate judge. I applied to Binder and Binder for help. They requested a copy of my medical records and list of medical providers. Requested a letter from my peronal doctor. Within 30 days, my third appeal which would have had to go before an actual judge was approved before even getting to that far. This after Binder and Binder's involvement. They get 25% of what your back payments total outs to from your initial filing date. Well worth the money for me not to even have to go before a judge. By this time I was so frustrated and depressed about my situation that I had almost just given up. Which, I am sure, is the SSA's plan. Once Binder and Binder was secured in my behalf, my claim miracuously sailed through. So evidenlty, I was not doing it well enough on my own. I am not privy to the inner workings of Binder and Binder. I only know that I got immediate results and was the best money I ever spent.

[goddessoflubboc]

Originally Posted by Unregistered my son is 19 and was diagnosed as a 6 year old child with asperger's. i tried then to get him benefits and was denied due to the fact that he was passing all his classes. now he's 19 and has tried several different jobs, and is so anxious and monotone that he gets let go fairly quickly. this has caused him extreme stress. he recently got a new therapist who recommended he get retested for a diagnosis, because she didn't feel asperger's was accurate. he got extensive testing done, and she was correct. he has been diagnosed with obsessive-compulsive personality disorder and social phobia. his therapist recommended we get a lawyer to assist us with applying for benefits. today i contacted binder and binder and they wouldn't take our case because my son doesn't have any money to "pay back" to his great grandparents, who are allowing him to live with them for free right now. hm. so my son has a diagnosis that automatically should qualify him - a personality disorder - and yet they refused to help us because basically there's not enough money in it for them. i am super ticked off. nice that they showed their true colors though, because it's obvious that if we DID have a lot of money on the table, they probably would have taken plenty of it for themselves.

First - your son wasn't turned down as a child bc he was getting passing grades - my son has Aspergers and has always done exceptionally well, he got SSI until I started making too much.

Your son's new diagnoses give him a better chance. OCD can usually be quieted thru meds and therapy. Social phobia is greatly helped by therapy. So with help your son could be a very productive individual.

Lawyers who handle SS cases don't care where he lives or if he can pay that person. They only take winnable cases. Your son doesn't have that.

I am a former Binder and Binder caseworker in one of their NY offices. Every comment in this thread is accurate, shamefully. From both the employee side and the client side. I am not disgruntled or angry with Binder. There are just things about the company that never sat well with me but I had to go along with it while I was employed there (thankfully I don't have to do this anymore). I even questioned some of it and never got a straight answer and worse, started being mistreated by my manager after I questioned some of the unethical things this company does.

My biggest issue was this:

When submitting medical evidence to SSA, the applicant or the applicant's representative is supposed to submit ALL evidence that is provided by the doctor(s). The SSA guidelines on this are very clear. And although they do not state specifically WHAT must be submitted (thus creating a loophole) they DO state quite clearly that EVERYTHING obtained must be submitted. I read this very early in my training on the SSA website (though this was not part of my training, I took it upon myself to learn it during a period of downtime one day).
Binder and Binder, however, does not do this. They have a company-wide policy of only submitting evidence that is supportive of a client's disability. If the doctor states that the client can lift heavy objects, sit for six hours, or even if he/she comes right out and says that the client is NOT disabled and is capable of working, that evidence doesn't get submitted to SSA. It is withheld.
Taking it a step further, Binder will continue to seek out more evidence, even going as far as to suggest that the client see a different doctor, until they obtain the supportive evidence they need to get a favorable decision from a judge.
What they are doing is misrepresenting their cases to the administration because they are not presenting an accurate picture of their clients' disabilities. As a result, thousands of people are being awarded benefits that they are not entitled to. This is part of the reason why SSA is so backlogged and why it takes so long for people to get a hearing date. But with Binder, it is the whole COMPANY doing it!
Binder and Binder has built its business on a facade of fighting for benefits for those who are truly deserving of them. Yet what they are ACTUALLY doing is defrauding the administration themselves by obtaining benefits for people who aren't really disabled. They are scamming the system thousands of times over. In 2011, Binder and Binder collected $88 million in fees from its clients' cases. MANY of those were obtained by this unethical and fraudulent tactic. And they are under and investigation by Congress because of it.
There were several times where I questioned this practice...just out of curiosity (it was more than that but I didn't want to let on that I was on to them) and I was never given a straight answer. I wanted to know why we would continue to seek opinions if a doctor was clearly stating that his/her patient is not disabled. I was never really given an answer to the question.

Another thing that did not seem right to me... Another poster raised the issue of the Independent Medical Exam (IME). Binder's policy is that IME doctors are carefully selected by management and the appointments are scheduled by the caseworkers. The client is not to be given any of the IME doctor's information until after the client has paid for the exam. These exams cost at least $500 (which is on the cheap side). Only after Binder has the client's money is the client is allowed to have ANY of the doctor's information. This seemed EXTREMELY odd to me.
First of all, if I am being referred to a doctor by ANYONE, even if it is by another doctor, I want their name so I can check their credentials, board certification, malpractice lawsuits, etc. Second, these clients are NOT WORKING! And Binder is asking them to come up with $500+ yet is withholding the information that the client is paying that money for? I inquired as to the reason for this and it took two meetings of negotiations with four supervisors to get an answer. I was challenged for even asking the question, had to rephrase it several times and justify why I needed this information. They claimed that the reason they withhold the info from the client is because they've had problems with clients calling the doctors themselves and trying to haggle the cost of the exam. And that this compromises Binder's relationship with the IME doctors. I found it a little hard to swallow that this has happened enough times that they made it a policy. And a policy that compromises Binder's relationship with its clients, no less! Which leads me to my next point...

Binder and Binder, as a company, does not care about its clients. It is about numbers and that is all. I think I proved this in my point about the scam they run with the submission of medical evidence. When I worked there, I cared about my clients very much and I'm sure there are many caseworkers who also care about their own clients. Rather, I cared about my clients who were truly disabled. I took a special interest in those cases and I went above and beyond to connect with those people and make them feel that they were being taken care of, that they were more than just a file on a desk. But I was told repeatedly by my manager not to spend too long working on one file. That if I was doing this, it meant something was wrong and I should come see her.
One day I had spent quite a long time working on one file that needed a lot of specific attention. I was called into my supervisor's office and berated for my lack of productivity. At Binder and Binder, productivity only has meaning if it applies to multiple cases over the course of the day. You are not considered productive if you invest tireless and exhaustive work on the same client's case.
Now, if you were that client whose file I was working on and it required that specific attention, wouldn't you want to know that your caseworker was dedicating that time and effort to it? Wouldn't it appall you to know that her manager reprimanded her for spending TOO LONG working on it and that it was a problem? Would you feel confident going in for your hearing before the judge knowing that your caseworker's boss cut off the amount of time she was allowed to work on your file? That's how it is at Binder and Binder. Quantity not quality.

Binder will take on any case that meets the minimum requirements for SSD/SSI so that it can take on as many cases as possible. It doesn't matter if you have actual documentation from your doctor. You just have to SAY you have a supportive doctor and you're in. This company is a HUGE part of the reason why the administration is as dysfunctional as it is. They are literally assisting people in scamming the system. I had clients that were in their 20s (who also had no work history) who were claiming depression/anxiety as their "disability" with NOT ONE doctor supporting their claim. And Binder took them on and was fighting for their benefits. I was expected to try and obtain support for these people. I swear you could claim a hangnail as a disability and Binder would find a way to get you a favorable decision.

Now to clarify some of the points that have been raised on this thread:

-Binder and Binder is not a law firm. Yes, this is true and they are VERY careful in their advertising and on all their correspondence to not use the word "attorney". They are an advocacy group. This is perfectly legal according to a 2004 law passed by SSA loosening the restrictions on who is allowed to represent an applicant in a disability claim. You can be represented by anyone over the age of 18 that is a U.S. citizen and can sign their name. However, the only people who can be paid a fee to represent you are an attorney or a non-attorney representative. The unethical thing about what Binder does is that they know darn well that people retain them thinking they are a law firm and they do very little to correct the mistake. There is VERY little clarification on Binder's part that lets people know the difference between attorney and advocate. They allow the majority of their clients to believe that they are being represented by attorneys when the truth is that they MAY have an attorney present at their hearing but they probably will not (the company employs very few actual attorneys). It will more than likely be an advocate - which is different.
An advocate is a person with a college degree (it could be any degree - liberal arts, criminal justice, accounting, fashion design) who has taken coursework from and passed an exam given by Social Security that allows them to petition the administration for payment on a disability claim.
Again, this was yet another thing I questioned and was chastised for. Most of my questions came about because I did not want to be giving misinformation to the clients. As it turns out, Binder and Binder does so much HIDING information from clients that my questions began to create problems for my employment. It became clear very early on that I knew too much. My manager grew fearful that I'd reveal something to clients that they didn't want their clients knowing about. So I'd get answers like "I've never had a client ask that question before so you don't need that information." No joke!
The caseworkers that are considered successful and productive are those who are - forgive me for saying this - not bright enough to realize what is going on there. So they don't question anything and they just pump out the work, file after file after file. Log this, print that, file this, answer that call, submit this, log that, enter this, print print print, log log log, phones phones phones. DON'T ask questions. And you are a good caseworker.

-The advocate here who brought up the point about res judicata and how Binder and Binder is the only place that knows how to get around this?
Okay. Easy, I'll tell everyone here and now what it means and how to get around it. JUST TO AVOID them ever seeking out the services of Binder and Binder.
"res judicata" is a Latin term meaning "already been decided". As a legal principle, it means that a previous judgement is final therefore preventing subsequent litigation from happening over and over again. In SSD, it has very limited application and only applies to one specific situation. This requires a little knowledge of how your SSD eligibility works.
Your Social Security is like an insurance policy, meaning that you pay into it while you are working and when you stop working (due to disability) there is a date when your eligibility for SSD expires. That date is called your Date Last Insured (DLI). When claiming disability, you have to prove to the administration that you became disabled PRIOR to your DLI otherwise you are ineligible for benefits because essentially, your policy has expired.
If you have previously applied for SSD and been denied, then you can't apply again claiming the same disability because res judicata would apply. A previous judgement would have already decided that you were not disabled prior to your DLI and even if you have continued seeing your doctor who continues to say that you ARE disabled, it doesn't matter. Res judicata means it already was decided that you were not disabled at the time that you needed to prove that you were.
But there is ONE SPECIFIC INSTANCE where res judicata will not bar a subsequent claim. If a doctor provides a RETROSPECTIVE opinion on your disability prior to your DLI, thus proving that you were disabled before your SSD eligibility expired, this constitutes new and material evidence and the decision could be overturned.
There you go. I explained it. For free. (For the record...Binder and Binder would have spent at least 6-8 months explaining this to their client and finding a doctor who would provide the retrospective opinion and then included this in their fee petition).


My advice to those who are filing an SSD appeal:
Stay away from Binder and Binder. They say they are the most successful disability advocacy group and they are. But that is only because they are the largest. By that same logic they are also the most unsuccessful. And they are by FAR the most unethical. Hire a small, local attorney who specializes in social security or disability law.
And a brilliant idea would also be to not claim you are disabled unless a doctor tells you in plain English that you ARE disabled and cannot work. I was shocked by the number of cases that I was expected to develop who took themselves out of work and then expected their doctors to support the decision. Don't deem yourself disabled without your doctor's orders. Then file your claim and if you have to appeal, hire representation.

My advice to those who are thinking about working for Binder and Binder:
Stay FAR away. I have never seen anything like that place. It's a good thing I figured out their scam when I did and got OUT. Their employees either have no idea they are working for frauds or they are going along with it. The Binder brothers are shysters and are under investigation by Congress right now for the unethical practices they employ. Stay as FAR away from that company as you can. Anyone deserves better than to work in that place.

I wish I had seen this sooner and I hope that you had a better experience than I have.
I filed for disability with Binder and Binder in 2007. They lost the medical records before my hearing. My Lawyer said nothing during my hearing. I have 6 Doctors and 2 Psychiatrists on my side. My Doctors are furious that I did not receive disability. I am writing this in May of 2012. My appeals were rejected and I was just informed that my case has been pending in Federal court for a year. I am spending my retirement as I wait and have now been told that my benefits have expired. I get conflicting information on the rare occasion that I talk to anyone from Binder and Binder and to get any answer to my questions they make me feel as if I am wading through a pack of vicious dogs. That is all they have been to me. Using them is my biggest regret. All I can do is wait helplessly for a final decision. My future seems bleak. This has been absolute Hell.

Hi...this is in reply to the poster above. I'm the one who commented right above you. I used to work for Binder and Binder (I don't know if you read my post but they are not what they claim to be).
Listen, you don't have to continue using them. You absolutely can release them as your representation. Just do it in writing and also notify Social Security right away that they are no longer representing you. Get a smaller, local attorney who specializes in disability law to represent you. You can also contact your local DCAP office where I believe you can find representation at no cost.
Binder is still going to petition their fee when you win your case because of the fee agreement you signed and the fact that they have done work on your case for five years. But truthfully, any attorney would be taking the same amount of money (it is a standard calculation) off of your award. So it's a shame that it is going to Binder since they are not really treating you well but if you had a different lawyer all along, he'd be the one getting it. It's just a matter of which attorney the fee is going to.
I'm sorry that you've been dealing with this for so long. But you do NOT have to keep them if you are unhappy with them.

LOOK OUT. BINDER AND BINDER ARE FAKE. THEY ARENT EVEN LAWYERS. MY JUDGE MADE FUN OF THEM AND TOLD ME TO GET A LAWYER. STAY AWAY FOR YOUR OWN GOOD.

(former employee here) Well....that is not entirely true. Charles and Harry Binder ARE absolutely attorneys. But the company "Binder and Binder" misrepresents itself sort of. It is owned by two attorneys and people hire them under the assumption that they are being represented by attorneys. Binder does absolutely nothing to clarify this point other than avoiding the word "attorney" and instead, using the words "advocate" and "advocacy" in its advertising and on all its correspondence. So they make it the CLIENT'S fault for not understanding the difference even though they do nothing to explain it.
Not everyone is going to be represented at their hearing by an attorney. Some might. But most will be represented by an advocate. And not only does Binder and Binder not bother to explain this to its clients, it does not allow its employees to get into this discussion with its clients either.
When my boss explained to me what an advocate is, I was very clearly told "You shouldn't even be having this discussion with a client". I was told to "direct it to an attorney". Every single time I had a question about any of their unethical practices, the answer was always "give it to an attorney". They want their employees to be in the dark and they have ways of BSing the clients. This way nobody is privy to their scam.

If a judge is laughing at Binder and Binder it is for any of several reasons but the ALJ is right. Hire a small, local firm that actually uses the word ATTORNEY and who specializes in disability law. Someone that you are able to get on the phone - the actual person who will be with you at your hearing - and meet face to face and develop a relationship with. This is someone who will familiarize him/herself with your case. You won't just be a file sitting on the floor that can be petitioned for a fee two years down the line. Because that's all you are to Binder and Binder.