Car loan straw purchase

[Chubba]

I live in Canada.
I will try and explain my situation. 2 years ago my brother asked me
>> > to co-sign a loan for him to purchase a vehicle. It is just coming to
>> > light that I didn't co-sign for a loan for him the actual loan is in my name
>> > and my name only. I know pretty stupid on my part. Anyway this came up
>> > now because I started getting calls from the Bank because he was missing
>> > payments. I had to get the car from him and change all the bank
>> > information so that the payments are now coming out of my bank account.
>> > I had to bring all the payments up to date as well. When I went to my
>> > insurance company they told me that I could not register this vehicle
>> > because my brother had already had it registered in his name and the
>> > only way I could register this car was by getting a bill of sale for the car
>> > from my brother. He is not being very cooperative. So the paperwork I
>> > have in my possession is the loan contract from the TD bank all in my
>> > name and with my signature on it. I have the credit application as well
>> > with just my name and signature on it. I have the bill of sale from the
>> > Dealer with my name and signature on it. The thing is the Dealer also made a
>> > bill of sale with all the same information on it but this one only had
>> > my brother's name on it. That is how he registered the car in his name
>> > and drove the vehicle for the past 2 years. Can a dealership make a bill
>> > of sale out to another person who is not on the original loan documents?
>> > Everybody I have talked to about this says there are red flags going up
>> > as soon as the two bill of sales come up.
>> > I went back to the car dealership looking for information and the
>> finance guy who signed all this paperwork originally told me everything they did
>> > was legal although one of the salesmen I talked to first started talking
>> > about a straw purchase.
>> > There are a couple of areas on my loan paperwork that I don't
>> > understand.
>> > 1. Third Party Determination - Will this credit facility be used by
>> or on behalf of a person other than the Applicant? The Dealership
>> answered No. It says if you answer yes than the dealer must complete
>> and sign a Third Party Determination Form. They did not do this.
>> Shouldn't they have to do this if they gave the car to my brother?
>> >
>> > 2. On my sales finance contract under Assignment it says the
>> foregoing assignment is without recourse to the Seller unless TDFS is
>> unable to recover payment in full of the Loan as a result of the breach
>> of any of the foregoing representations, warranties or covenants. In
>> the event of such a breach, the Seller agrees to repurchase the Loan
>> and this Contract, regardless of the location and condition of the
>> Property, for the outstanding Principal Amount and accrued interest and
>> all other costs, fees and charges (such repurchase being without
>> warranty by or recourse to TDFS), and hereby agrees to indemnify TDFS
>> for any loss or damage suffered by TDFS as a result of the breach of
>> any such representation, warranty or covenant. Did the dealership not
>> breach when they did not disclose the third party in this?
>> >
>> >So can a car dealership make out all the
>> > paperwork in one person's name and apply for and get the loan for the
>> > vehicle and then give another totally different person the actual
>> > vehicle?
>> > (whose name is nowhere on the loan application documents).
>> > 1. The car dealership used my name and information to secure the loan
>> > and I signed this paperwork thinking I was co-signing for my brother. 2.
>> > They then made out another bill of sale in my brother's name and gave
>> > him the vehicle which he drove for the past 2 years.
>> So basically I am asking, is there anything I can do about this or
>> because I signed all of the paperwork I am now stuck with this car loan
>> and car?
>> From what I explained was everything done legally on the
>> dealership's part even though they did not disclose any information on
>> the third party to the bank? Can they make out two bill of sales to two different people for the same car?
>> Is there any reason to take this any further or do I just suck it up and
>> learn the hard way?

[AFFA]

I wish to inform you that if car was sold to you as co-owner then a new bill of sale only in the name of your brother cannot be made by car seller. f such a thing has been done then you may discuss with the car dealer and can ask for compensation of your loss. If they refuse then you may report the matter to law enforcement agencies regarding fraud. Making of two bill of sale containing you as co owner in one while not in other acts as fraud because you were included for loan while originally your brother was made owner. .

AFF

[Chubba]

There is no co-owner anywhere. The loan application and credit check I have is in my name only. Bank tells me it is all me. Brother is nowhere on any of the paperwork. As far as I can see the dealer did all the financing in my name only. He gave all of this to the bank along with a bill of sale in my name only. He got the financing. He then made out a different bill of sale with only my brother's name on it, signed over the transfer of ownership on the back of the registration to my brother in his name and gave my brother the vehicle. Brother took these two documents to an insurance place and registered the vehicle in his name. Now I cannot register this vehicle without a bill of sale from my brother for the car I own. Isn't this just so wrong? Out of all of the paperwork I have managed to get my hands on there is not one sheet where both of our names are on it. Brother's name only comes up when it gets to the registering of the vehicle. Meaning a bill of sale in his name and the transfer of ownership made out to him. I have gone to the dealership and they told me everything they did was legal. One time I went there snooping around for paperwork and they asked me how my vehicle was? I wanted to say what vehicle I have never seen it. I have done everything in my power to try and figure this out and fix it. Dealer won't help, the guy I talked to at the bank told me to relax and have a cup of tea. Now I am sitting here with a car loan I am paying, a car that I don't even want, can't register to get insurance, can't drive and can't sell. I feel so screwed and am running into walls everywhere I go.

[Friend In Court]

In what province do you reside? That this transaction took place. You may have some remedies yet against the dealer to force him to issue the bill of sale to you.

Please supply the province and I will supplement this reply.

[Chubba]

Thanks for your reply. I live in Manitoba.

[Friend In Court]

In Manitoba there are two pieces of legislation that govern practices of auto dealers and protect consumers against unethical conduct:

Manitoba's Business Practices Act which is administered by the Consumers' Bureau of the Department of Finance and by the Drivers and Vehicles Act which is administered by the Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation.

My recommendation is to contact first the Consumer's Bureau of the Department of Finance with the history of your dealings with this dealership. They should be able to help.

[Chubba]

Well finally got to see a lawyer today and he said there is absolutely something irregular (his words) that has happened here and then he said it would end up costing me more money than what the car is worth if I went ahead with trying to sue the dealer. He told me to get the bill of sale from my brother and try and sell the car and suffer my losses instead of spending more money trying to get this dealer. He also told me to write a letter to the financing company and try to explain my situation. Like what is this going to do, I have tried and tried already they don't listen. This was my last try, I am beat. So sad........

[Chubba]

Still sitting here with a car I am paying for but can't insure, drive or sell. I have gone to BBB and car dealer said I signed all the paperwork so I am SOL, gone to Consumer Protection Agency they said they can't help it is a bank issue, gone to Manitoba Public Insurance they said it is a contract issue even though giving two bill of sales is not right. Spoke to two lawyers both said it would cost me more money than the car is worth to fight these guys. Brother will not give me a bill of sale for the vehicle I am paying for.
So my question is how do I register this vehicle? I can't do anything with it except keep paying the bank for it. WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG HERE?

[Chubba]

I have exhausted all resources and to date still cannot do anything with this vehicle. My last resort is go to the Police with all this. Wouldn't this be considered fraud? Can I do that?

[Chubba]

Well the Police won't even do anything either. What the hell is wrong with people? Everyone keeps saying it is a legal matter and needs to go to court. Can't even find a lawyer who will help me. How can this crooked car dealer get away with issuing two bill of sales for the one property? This is so illegal and yet nobody will do anything about it or help me while they get away with it.