Fraud, Custody, Child Support, Long Story, Please help?

This is a discussion on Fraud, Custody, Child Support, Long Story, Please help? within the Child Custody & Support forum, part of the FAMILY LAW, DIVORCE, CUSTODY category; I live in San Bernardino County, California. My daughter just turned 2 this week, her mother and I have been ...

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Old Jul 19th, 2012, 05:55 PM   #1
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Confused Fraud, Custody, Child Support, Long Story, Please help?

I live in San Bernardino County, California. My daughter just turned 2 this week, her mother and I have been separated since April 2011. Long story short, we were both worthless, drug addicted losers before she became pregnant. I gave up drugs and crime when our daughter was born, a business owner took me under his wing. He gave me a full-time job and I rented a room in his house. My girlfriend agreed to take on household and childcare duties while I worked full time, but when she was expected to actually honor her end of the bargain, she left me and moved in with her mother.

Immediately upon moving into her mother's house, she boarded the Welfare Train, but left the responsibility of caring for our daughter up to her mother. She informed me that her new boyfriend intended to adopt my child, to which I firmly objected. Her boyfriend was then arrested and charged with Possession of Child Pornography! Homemade videos of a grotesque, unspeakable nature were found on his cell phone and computer. That, believe it or not, is not the worst part; my ex, convinced of his innocence, was bringing my daughter into jail to visit this alleged pedophile against my wishes! She denies to this day that he made or even possessed the videos, however she soon dumped him and shacked up with my (former) best friend.

She continued to collect Welfare benefits on our daughter's behalf, though the money was all given to her boyfriend for rent. Not a cent of this money was spent on our daughter to the best of my knowledge. My ex's mother cared for our daughter the majority of the time, and spent her own money on food, diapers, clothes, formula, etc. In January 2012 I lost my job, and in February 2012 I moved into my mother's house. It was at this time that I began taking care of our daughter 3-5 days per week. As of January 1st, 2012 I was ordered to pay $300 per month in child support, based on my "Presumed Monthly Income" of $1400. I received notice of my obligation 27 days after it went into effect. I didn't pay it, because I had no money. I never contacted the court to inform them that I had no job or money, big mistake on my part, as I now owe something like $2100. I would have no issue with this debt if it weren't for the fact that my ex's benefits were ill-begotten and weren't used for our daughter's welfare.

Here's where it begins to get tricky:

Beginning in February 2012, I had custody 3-5 days out of the week, and my ex's mother and grandmother had custody the rest of the time. My daughter would occasionally spend the night at my ex's house, only to be dropped off at my ex's parents' house or my house the next day. So my ex has had custody 1 day per week since February (that's an over-estimate in her favor), but still collects Welfare benefits on our daughter's behalf. I neglected to report this to the court for many reasons, the two principle reasons being: I did not want my daughter to hate me later in life for potentially putting her mother in prison, and I did not want to put my ex's family in the position of having to choose between lying on their daughter's behalf or telling the truth which would potentially put her in prison. I, as well as her family, urged her to tell the county herself that our daughter was not living with her. She did not. Instead, her pathetic thieving boyfriend decided he wanted some free government money of his own, and signed up to receive payment for babysitting my daughter.

Thus, my ex-girlfriend and my ex-best friend are both committing Welfare fraud by collecting benefits on behalf of a child who neither lives with them nor receives any financial assistance from them. Meanwhile, I'm dumpster-diving in order to feed myself, while collecting and selling recyclables in order to buy food and diapers for my daughter, and my ex's family are providing all other necessities for my daughter's well-being. I took on a job as my disabled mother's caregiver, which pays roughly $300 per month. Now I have enough money to feed and clothe my daughter, though I still eat food from dumpsters.

My ex's entire family has become fed up with her behavior, as well as her boyfriend's constant and blatant disrespect of my daughter and their family. He showed up at their house last week, drunkenly shouting obscenities at my ex's family from their front yard. He promptly hid in his truck when my ex's brother ran out of the house. Brother punched the truck window (at his mother's command) and knocked it loose, and boyfriend called the police. The police showed up, and my ex's boyfriend is now pressing charges on my ex's family for damages to his truck. This, in my ex's mother's point of view, was the last straw. She reported their fraud on Monday, and now we await the results.

In conclusion...My ex and her leech of a boyfriend are about to be investigated for fraud and probably conspiracy as well, my ex's mother (a convicted felon) and brother are being prosecuted for damages to the leech's truck, and my daughter is currently living with me in my mother's house. I am the only caregiver who is not at risk of imprisonment at this time. I wanted custody of my daughter, but I didn't want it to happen like this.

I know, long story, for that I apologize, but this is a seriously condensed version. My questions:

Am I liable for not reporting the fraud before this incident? I intended to avoid criminal prosecution of the mother of my child, by allowing her countless opportunities to come clean on her own. Is her mother liable for not reporting the fraud sooner?

If the leeches are convicted and ordered to repay their ill-begotten gains, do I still owe child support for the child who has primarily been in my care for the past six months? I understand it was my responsibility to contest my financial obligation to the court long ago, given the situation; but if she is proven to have stolen that money and ordered restitution, do I still owe roughly $2100 to the county?

Whatever happens, happens. I am happy that my daughter is safe and sound, and I hope those thieves get what's coming to them, but I just want what's best for my little girl. Is there anybody out there who can shed some light on this situation?
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Old Jul 19th, 2012, 11:24 PM   #2
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Default Re: Fraud, Custody, Child Support, Long Story, Please help?

I wish to inform you that child support will have to be paid untill child support order is modified. The child support order can be modified to give effect to changed circumstances where you are also having child custody. You and mother may not be held liable for reporting fraud. A person can report fraud ut by not reporting to law enforcement agencies a person cannot be said to be held liable.

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Old Jul 19th, 2012, 11:46 PM   #3
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Default Re: Fraud, Custody, Child Support, Long Story, Please help?

You are court-ordered to pay child support. If mom was receiving Tanf some of that money will go to pay the state back but that has ZERO impact on your order.

If your child now resides with you then you must petition the court immediately for bothe the child support and the custody. Nothing can be done retroactively.

Since you were not in the household where the fraud happened you can't be held responsible - it is only your belief she was collecting benefits improperly. What someone may tell you just to piss you off vs reality may be very different.
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Old Jul 20th, 2012, 01:57 AM   #4
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Angry Re: Fraud, Custody, Child Support, Long Story, Please help?

So let me get this straight... I owe money to the county because they have paid money to the mother of my child. But even if the money she received is proven fraudulent and she is made to pay it back or face jail time, I still owe that money? That means the county is fraudulently collecting money from me! I don't have any money to pay the county, every cent I make goes to the child that is in my physical custody! How can I be made to pay child support when the child lives with me, while the other parties get away with stealing thousands of dollars from the county?!

I just spoke with my ex's mother. She says that my ex cancelled her Welfare benefits just hours before the investigation began, and the government officials with whom she spoke informed us that the county will not prosecute past fraud, only current fraud. So because she stopped fraudulently receiving benefits just in the nick of time, it is no longer a crime?! If I steal a vehicle, but decide I'm done using it just as the police are pulling me over, I am still guilty of grand theft auto and likely to be punished severely for my crime, so how in the hell can they just get away with this and force me to foot the bill?!

Who do I contact to ensure that this crime is prosecuted by those who are paid with my tax dollars to prosecute such crimes?
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Old Jul 20th, 2012, 02:47 AM   #5
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Default Re: Fraud, Custody, Child Support, Long Story, Please help?

I apologize for my rude demeanor. You did in fact answer the questions I asked, I just didn't like the truthful answers I received. I believe there are a great number of problems with the system in question, but not you people who have helped educate me about it. Thank you for taking the time to inform me thus far, and please understand that my ranting is not targeted toward you. This is just a very troubling predicament for me, I hope I have not offended those who were kind enough to address my problem.
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Old Jul 20th, 2012, 03:18 AM   #6
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Default Re: Fraud, Custody, Child Support, Long Story, Please help?

You haven't actually read my answer correctly at all. If mom got Tanf she has to pay it back (fraud or not), it's how it works. YOU got a court order to pay $x per month. When NOT on Tanf (which she does NOT receive if you pay child support) she gets her current and back owed to her. When backpay owed to her is done then the state takes their portion until they are paid off. Essentially money mom would've gotten if she didn't go on Tanf goes to the state bc she did. Hope that's clearer. So your obligation doesn't change, only what she receives. (If you think of Tanf as a loan to mom on unpaid child support it helps...).

HHS will go after prior fraud, but it has to be big money to be worth it.
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Old Jul 20th, 2012, 10:45 AM   #7
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Default Re: Fraud, Custody, Child Support, Long Story, Please help?

It's hard for a mother to feed her child from a dumpster. Had you paid your fair share of support, she might not have been in such a bind that parents had to step in.

Rather than go after the mother of your child, look to see her prosecuted criminally, why not get together with her, put your heads together and see what you two can do to increase your income so your child is taken care of properly.

The state may go after you for TANF funds, but unless she's making enough to put gold bricks under her bed, unlikely that she will be prosecuted. Welfare is never intended to be adequate to live on, just supplement, and when one is driven to make a dollar here and there to keep body and soul together, the welfare agencies are aware and rarely prosecute.
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Old Jul 24th, 2012, 08:57 PM   #8
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Default Re: Fraud, Custody, Child Support, Long Story, Please help?

@goddesofflubboc:
Thank you, your responses have helped to clarify the situation. I now understand that I must pay the money that the court has ordered me to pay, regardless of my ethical opinion on the matter. The order was made and my inaction up to this point has resulted as such, nobody's fault but mine.

@Friend In Court:
Obviously you didn't process the information I provided, so you should just stay out of it if all you can contribute are ignorant generalizations. There is not a snowball's chance in hell that I would ever consider getting back together with her. She was cheating on me with the man I thought was my best friend since before our daughter was conceived, and she has never displayed a shred of work ethic or human compassion that one would associate with a mother or a spouse. Furthermore, she has never been faced with the necessity of retrieving food from a dumpster, as she has always been supported fully by her family and the government. I already stated that I am the one who eats out of a dumpster, while my meager income (which I EARN!) is used to purchase fresh food, diapers, and other necessities for my daughter. Meanwhile, her mother is receiving benefits from the county and NOT using them for the welfare of her child. Why in the world would ANYBODY stand up for this woman? Her own family wants to see her prosecuted for her crimes, and you automatically defend her because you think she is using government assistance out of need and not selfish greed. You make assumptions rather than reading the information that is displayed in front of you.

The current price of gold is $1581 per ounce. At a rate of $500 per month since April 2011, my ex has received a current total of $7500 in the form of Cash Aid. At a rate of $200 per month, she has received $3000 in the form of Food Stamps in our daughter's name. That's a total of $10,500, which is enough to stash over 6 ounces of gold under her bed. Maybe that's not bricks, but I encourage you to try surviving on the trash that society casts away for a year and then tell me what you think about the value of $10,500. As I mentioned before, I would have no problem with her receiving all this free money if she were actually using it to ensure our daughter's well-being, but that has never been the case. She is claiming to be in need of this money because she is raising a child on her own, but the truth is that she has left this responsibility up to her mother and myself but still receives the free ride. Any father would be upset about this, in fact any taxpayer should be upset about this, because she can't possibly be the only person committing this disgusting act, and we are all funding it involuntarily.

In conclusion, "Friend In Court," do yourself and everyone else a favor and think before you attempt to communicate with others. I dare suggest you contemplate the validity of your statements before you make them, and avoid using generalizations that are completely unrelated to the subject at hand. You might seem less ignorant if you follow these suggestions in the future.
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Old Jul 25th, 2012, 05:55 AM   #9
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Default Re: Fraud, Custody, Child Support, Long Story, Please help?

Obviously you are one of those fathers who believes everyone else other than you should support your child. The sum you quote has been paid by the taxpayers because you do not live up to your obligations to support the child you sired. If you did not want the responsibility of raising and supporting your child, you should have (1) used birth control, (2) picked someone you liked and respected to lay down with, and (3) married first before you brought a child into the world.

You are one of the one in three who leaves their child for everyone else to support. And eating out of dumpsters cuts no ice with me.

You did not like my answer but if you grew yourself a pair you would do whatever you had to to live up to your responsibilities and support your child. With being on the pity pot as you are, 'eating out of dumpsters" you are not even fit to have custody of and raise your own child.
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Old Aug 8th, 2012, 11:15 PM   #10
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Default Re: Fraud, Custody, Child Support, Long Story, Please help?

@FriendInCourt:
Again, I say you should not participate in a discussion if you refuse to take in the information provided, but rather insist upon making incorrect assumptions and passing judgment based on those assumptions. What part of "I'm the one who is raising the child" don't you understand?! If somebody else were taking care of my daughter, I would have no reason to complain about being sued for child support. But I am taking care of her, her mother is not, so her mother is not owed diddly squat, end of story.

In regards to your most ludicrous comments:
"With being on the pity pot as you are, 'eating out of dumpsters" you are not even fit to have custody of and raise your own child."

How do you feel about parents who live solely on government funding, amounting to little more than my income, raising their children? I am too proud to ask a nearly bankrupt government for free money when I am fully capable of surviving without their help. 60% of food in the United States is thrown away, due to the disgustingly wasteful nature of our collective culture. If I was filthy rich I would still see no problem with using some of that food and lessening the overall waste our society produces. My way of coping with poverty is to use the excess resources that are discarded by wasteful people. There are many who cope with poverty by extracting money from the taxpayers because they feel like they are entitled to free income. Honestly, which is a better example to a child?

"The sum you quote has been paid by the taxpayers because you do not live up to your obligations to support the child you sired."

Again, I am the one who is supporting the child. You manifested this vicious attack out of thin air, it is based on loose assumption and biased opinion. Your continued ignorance of the facts being presented leads me to believe that you suffer from some sort of serious mental illness, perhaps delirium if not acute retardation, among other things. Who in their right mind could address a parent who has physical custody of his/her child the vast majority of the time, and pays expenses for said child, and then accuse said parent of not living up to their obligations? You are wrong, that is my conclusion.

This continued debate upsets me mostly because it reflects the double standard that envelopes our society. People generally assume the father is wrong and the mother is owed everything. In regards to your comment that I should have married that **** before having a child: I was fully prepared to marry her and spend the rest of my life with her blissfully. She convinced me that she was infertile, knowing that she wasn't. Evidence shows that she planned to have a child in order to exact revenge on her own mother, who was absent during her childhood. She intends to punish her mother by sticking her with the responsibility of raising her child, but she never expected me to step up and take the reins.

It was AFTER our daughter was born that my ex began to display increasing symptoms of a manipulative sociopath with no soul (these are the words of her own mother). She uses everybody around her and extracts whatever she can from people while making no measurable contributions to any aspect of society. Yes, I should have used birth control despite my faith in her lies, but my daughter is the most wonderful mistake I've ever made, she has given me purpose and reason to end my bad habits that inevitably lead to more mistakes, and I would not change the timeline if I had the opportunity. I shamelessly refer to my ex as a **** because I have recently learned, from several members of her own family, that she was cheating on me with my best friend before our daughter was even conceived. Now we don't need to get into some Jerry Springer stuff based on that fact; I don't need any genetic testing to know that my daughter is in fact my daughter. She looks, speaks and behaves like me, and the bond we share can only be understood by other parents.

But after all has been said and done, I'm very relieved that I didn't marry that ****, because if I had, I would either be spending the rest of my life blindly deceived by an unscrupulous infidel who claims undying love, or I would currently be divorced and sued for alimony by said infidel.

POSITIVE UPDATE:
My $300/month income is from In-Home Supportive Services. I help take care of my disabled mother, and the state will fund no more than 35 hours a month for my services. Just two days ago, I received a document from Child Support Services stating that I owe $0.00/month henceforth, based on my meager income from the state. So apparently it takes about 6 months for one government agency to contact another with relevant facts, but of course it was my responsibility to report it sooner. So now I will only have to deal with the past charges, and they are no longer piling up on me. Whether or not the leeches are still fraudulently receiving government assistance is beyond me, and I've just about given up on the idea of them being punished for their crimes. I am just relieved that the child support issue is being resolved, and that my daughter is at least loved and cared for by her father and her grandparents. Perhaps her mother will come around before it is too late to redeem herself, I hope that will be the case.

So, "FriendInCourt," what erroneous accusations and slander can you generate from that?
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