visitation rights violated... complicated

i live in new york city


i have been divorced for over 10 years. at the time my ex did everything in her power to stop me from having visitation with my two children, she had me submit to drug tests, psychological evaluation, you name it. in the judges wisdom she realized this woman was being spiteful and awarded me full visitations every other weekend.

it is now 11 years later. my son is 20 and has a life of his own.he works weekends, has a girlfriend. he no longer comes to sleep over dad's every other weekend, but he does from time to time. we have a good relationship.

my 15 year old daughter is a different story. the last time i saw her was in august. i was patient and tried working with her. in october she told me she no longer wants to see me or talk to me. i have tried calling her, tried to be patient. her mom is no help, doesn't even try to help, doesn't even pick up the phone. i waited until the holidays to see if she would come for x-mas but she did not.

i filed a petition against the mother for violation of our court ordered visitation agreement. i also filed for custody on the grounds the mother disparages me in front of the children and has basically turned my girl against me. i have no doubt i can prove this in court. any outsider who meets both of us can tell the contempt and hatred she has for me, even still after all these years. she hates me more than she loves her children, that's the bottom line.

i wish i can afford a lawyer but i cannot. although i make decent money, i have 3 kids with two different exes and pay as much in child support as i take home. the system basically leaves divorced fathers for dead, as if we've done a great crime because these women decided they no longer wanted to be married to us....but that's a story for another time. the point is i'll be my own lawyer which will put me behind the 8 ball immeadiately.

we go to court on january 10th for the first time. i have no idea what to do or say or ask. i am going to tell my story and tell her lawyer i will drop custody fight for my weekends again. that's all i really want is my time with my daughter. i don't want a big fight, i just want what i already won 10 years ago. i believe me and my daughter will straighten this out ourselves if given the time together.
but my ex is always ready for a fight where i'm concerned and instead of even talking to me is ready to go to court. i don't get it. i'm not perfect, but i've been a good dad all these years. i've sacrificed my time and money and done all i can for my kids. i don't deserve to have my girl brainwashed and call me a " bum" and other choice things

my questions are....

what do i do ... i can put my son, 20, who lives with her on a witness stand and he will tell the truth and testify how his mother talks bad about me and influences his sister. and once she herself gets on the stand i have no doubt her nastiness and hatred towards me will shine on through. ( i actually feel bad and pray for her, nthat god should lift this hatred from her soul, it must be terrible to live with that.)

what are my chances .... and if i lose does that mean i won't see my daughter again? or at least until she grows up realizes she made a mistake, feels bad and contacts me... all those lost years.....

can someone help? is there a lawyer out there who will advise me? is there someone out there who has been through something like this who will lend emotional support?

The court wants all kids to see both parents; tell your story just as you have done here and you will likely prevail. You could even show the judge your post here as it certainly summarizes your dilemma and shows your reasonableness and intention to try to do the best for the kids..

ok... went to court wednesday ..... my daughter was assigned asan acs lawyer who will be contacting me and the case was put off until march 8th ....

i spoke to someone who tells me because the child is 15 they will let her make up her own mind.... i feel as though as though i am in a no win situation ... all i know is i love her, and miss her, and i gotta try something...

i will keep informed, so that all who read behind me, who may be in similar situation, have a better understanding

...yes let us know how it goes...you should prevail...

so went back to court today..... she brought our daughter.
we saw the judge's lawyer and he knew we were going nowhere fast ... i told my daughter's mom i would drop everything if we all went to family counciling .. naturally she said no ....
so we went before the judge... i immeadiately felt the judges hostility when she became upset with me saying i filed incorrectly because the original custody award happened on the divorce and i should have filed for a modification instead ... she said it very annoyed ... and i'm like " oh great, she doesn't like me already for some clerical bull, how was i supposed to know, i'm trying to do this without a lawyer.
after that i thought it went ok ... i stated my case, that my visitation agreement was being violated in multiple ways. she was not producing the child, not giving me information about her health, school and other info, that i was being denied phone contact, and she was disparaging me in front of the child. the mother tried to say she didn't talk to me on the phone because i yell and curse. i said that was a flat out lie, which it is. she doesn't even pick up the phone. i believe i can prove that next time by bringing in my phone records. every night in the month of february, i make a call to the house and it is less than a minute long, because i leave a message in the answering machine ... there is never any conversation and all calls are under one minute.
so then the judge appointed my daughter a legal guardian, and said we'll deal with the visitation violation next time after the guardian speaks to us all. she questioned my petetion for custody, stating this is only done in extreme cases, neglect, proving the custodial parent was a bad parent.... i explained that besides violating the visitation, there is legal precedent in ny state that a child can be removed from one parent and given to the other if proven the parent disparages against the non-custodial parent and turns the child against that parent. i explained i didn't believe it was a good thing to take my daughter out of her home, her school , from her friends, that all i wanted was my time with my daughter, but that my rights, which i had already won 11 years earlier, were being violated and as long as it continued she gave me no other recourse. the judge said she would leave it on the calander for now, until she gets a full report from the law guardian. the case was postponed until april 26th.
i later ran into a lawyer in the bathroom, who was sitting in the back while our case was on. he told me i handled myself well in there, better than some lawyers. and that the fact the judge didn't dismiss my custody case offhand was a good sign that she is listening to my arguements. this made me feel better. although my heart is still heavy because my daughter was there ready to testify she didn't want to come see me. the judge was a little annoyed the mom took her out of school to go to court.
i feel my next move is this: to write down the history and all my grievences , and arguements,in detail for my meeting with the law guardian.
research and present cases where custody was given to the other parent for the reasons i described earlier, and find out what legal grounds need to be proven and satisfied. then show how my case parralells those cases and show this case meets that criteria. but i will stress , all i want is to see my daughter, barring that, i think we all need some family therapy. it isn't normal for a 15 year old girl to all of a sudden out of nowhere no longer want to see or talk to her father. nor is it normal for the mom to advocate that, how can that be good for the child?
i think i'm doing ok, but the key now is to win over the guardian and convince her we should go for family therapy.
she didn't come with a lawyer... and i know i can out lawyer her if she doesn't get a lawyer in the future. i'm cautiously optimistic, but alot is riding on a one hour meeting with the law guardian.
comments???!!!! suggestions ???!!!! god i'm scared i'm going to lose my daughter forever.... i love her so....

and on it goes... went to court ... postponed .. hearing slated to start next visit

[msgny]

why postponed?

well i guess not postponed ... just moved on ... i was told next time we will be given a date for our hearing to start .. why they needed an extra adjurnment for that i don't know.

well i might as well tell you the outcome ... i lost ...
seems at 16 they believe the child is old enough to decide for themselves. so my daughter went before the judge and told her she didn't want to see me anymore. gave her some b.s. reasons and even lied.
the judge , in her ruling, icould see felt bad for me, but there was nothing legally that she could do .. she asked me if i wanted a full hearing, but i declined. that would have meant putting my sons on the witness stand, and my family is divided enough, i didn't need to get them in trouble with thier mom ... i figured some day , when she older and matured, she'd realize her mistake and come talk to me about it.

well that was in july ... in october my aunt died, she came to the wake and spoke to me as though nothing happened. now i invited her to come for christmas , expecting her to say no..... but she's coming ...

don't me get wrong , i'm thankful to have my family whole and together again ... but i mean ... what was that all for ...?

the bottom line ... in the eyes of the court, once the child hits a certain age where they determine the child can decide for themselves ... the father loses all rights, whether there is cause or not .... great system ...

Originally Posted by Unregistered well i might as well tell you the outcome ... i lost ... seems at 16 they believe the child is old enough to decide for themselves. so my daughter went before the judge and told her she didn't want to see me anymore. gave her some b.s. reasons and even lied. the judge , in her ruling, icould see felt bad for me, but there was nothing legally that she could do .. she asked me if i wanted a full hearing, but i declined. that would have meant putting my sons on the witness stand, and my family is divided enough, i didn't need to get them in trouble with thier mom ... i figured some day , when she older and matured, she'd realize her mistake and come talk to me about it. well that was in july ... in october my aunt died, she came to the wake and spoke to me as though nothing happened. now i invited her to come for christmas , expecting her to say no..... but she's coming ... don't me get wrong , i'm thankful to have my family whole and together again ... but i mean ... what was that all for ...? the bottom line ... in the eyes of the court, once the child hits a certain age where they determine the child can decide for themselves ... the father loses all rights, whether there is cause or not .... great system ...

I'm so sorry that things happened the way they did. I agree, it's really lousy that a obviously biased Judge didn't do what is right by the law. Children should not be allowed to choose to see a parent, until they are an adult.

I'm glad that your daughter is now wanting to see you, maybe she has matured a little and has come to realize that you do love her. I hope everything works out for you.