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PayPal Dispute: Can I sue them or take them to Small Claims in Ontario?

This is a discussion on PayPal Dispute: Can I sue them or take them to Small Claims in Ontario? within the Business Contracts & Partnerships forum, part of the BUSINESS & FINANCE LAW category; I sold an item to a 'customer' on eBay. He paid with PayPal. I mailed the item to him. He ...

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Old Aug 28th, 2008, 08:25 AM   #1
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Default PayPal Dispute: Can I sue them or take them to Small Claims in Ontario?

I sold an item to a 'customer' on eBay. He paid with PayPal. I mailed the item to him. He received it the next day. I have tracking information to prove this. Here's what happened next.

He claimed there was a battery missing.
I asked him to prove it.
He sent me a picture showing there was only one battery instead of 2. He could have hidden the other battery, but I can't prove that. So I sent him an email in which I stated I would send him a replacement battery at my own expense.
Several hours later, I received an email from PayPal stating that the 'customer' had opened a dispute with me, claiming that the item he had received was 'significantly not as described'.
I contacted the customer, asking why he had opened a dispute and therefore freezing the funds in my account, after I had just sent him an email offering to send him a new battery, which apparently, was what he wanted. He claimed ignorance of the rules.
Anyways, now my PayPal account was frozen because of him, after I had just offered him what he was asking for. Already furious, I now became suspicious. If he had just spat at my offer and opened a dispute, perhaps he did not really want the battery. He wanted to scam me instead.

Next, I dropped everything and looked at the dispute. PayPal was asking me respond. So I did. I sent them an email explaining the situation and asking them to rectify it. I included a link to Canada Post which showed that the package had been received. I subsequently provided extra responses directly to PayPal. Then, I escalated the dispute to a claim to speed up the process.
They sent me emails telling me that I now had to resolve the dispute/claim. I called them and asked them what they were talking about. I had sent them all the information and documentation. Now it was up to them. I trusted that they would make a fair decision.
How can I resolve a dispute myself? Unilaterally? The word 'resolve' means 'to solve', 'to fix'. Obviously, I couldn't fix the problem, or I would have fixed it. This customer was trying to scam me. I was asking PayPal to help. I provided pages of documentation and proof. Wasn't that enough?

Apparently not. They awarded the customer $180 to replace the battery. Can you believe it?
I contacted PayPal again, asking which school the person who had decided to pay $180 to the customer had attended. I appealed the decision.
A few days later, on appeal, PayPal awarded an extra $109 to the customer and closed the dispute. They then told me my account was frozen until I paid them the negative balance (I had not been able to work during this time, because of the dispute, so I had made no sales and there was no money in the account). Now, they want me to pay them more money to reopen my account.
I first called them, asking if they had really sent me this email, awarding the extra $109 to the customer. They agreed that they had. It wasn't a spoof email or some kind of joke.
PayPal is claiming that since I did not choose to 'resolve' the claim in their dispute resolution center, I forfeited the funds. They are trying to tell me that all the emails I sent them, and all the information which I did provide in their dispute resolution center are invalid and worthless, because I did not place this information in a text box after clicking on 'resolve'.
Again, how can I resolve something by myself? I saw the 'resolve' button, but I did not click on it, because I was waiting for PayPal to 'resolve' the dispute!

Now my business is in ruins.
The 'customer', who had no feedback on eBay, he was a first time buyer, is laughing and planning out his next scam. He gets to keep both the item and my money.
And PayPal won't let me close the account and start over. Not that I have any faith in them or want to continue doing business with them, but I have no choice. They have a monopoly on this type of service.

So my question is, can I take PayPal to court?
I am in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. PayPal's Customer Agreement says that I would have to go to New Brunswick to deal with this. See below.

14.3 Law and Forum for Disputes. Except as otherwise agreed by the parties or as described in section 14.2 above, you agree that any claim or dispute you may have against PayPal must be resolved by a court located in New Brunswick, Canada. You agree to submit to the personal jurisdiction of the courts located New Brunswick, Canada, the purpose of litigating all such claims or disputes. This Agreement shall be governed in all respects by the laws of Canada.

I don't want to do this in New Brunswick. I want to do it in Ontario. Can I sue them or take them to Small Claims or something in Ontario? Besides simply paying these thieves at Paypal, what are my options?
I don't want this to happen again to myself or to anyone else. But PayPal's 'Seller Protection Policy' is worthless and misleading. This isn't the first time they have refused to back me up, but it is definitely the most insulting incident. I can't imagine working with PayPal again, but they have a monopoly.
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Old Sep 6th, 2008, 02:33 PM   #2
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Default re: PayPal Dispute: Can I sue them or take them to Small Claims in Ontario?

I wish I knew what to tell you. But I don't have a clue. I just wanted to write and say that I am so sorry you are having this problem. I myself am having a huge problem with ebay. Between them and PayPal (same owners, ya know), they DO have a monopoly going on. I would love to see them both fall flat on their faces, so to speak! Seller's don't have any rights anymore. It's crazy that you had to pay that much money and that they allowed someone to do you that way. Ebay and PayPal are really quite a joke!
Sincerely, Brooke
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Old Sep 7th, 2008, 02:20 AM   #3
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Default re: PayPal Dispute: Can I sue them or take them to Small Claims in Ontario?

It's never pleasant when you experience a transaction problem. However, using the Resolution Center, you can resolve any transaction problems promptly and easily.

When a buyer opens a dispute in the Resolution Center, it's your chance to:

* Communicate directly with the buyer to resolve the issue amicably.
* Provide prompt customer service that can gain you repeat business.
* Avoid the possibility of a dispute escalating to a claim or chargeback.
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Old Sep 7th, 2008, 10:29 PM   #4
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Default re: PayPal Dispute: Can I sue them or take them to Small Claims in Ontario?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooke View Post
I wish I knew what to tell you. But I don't have a clue. I just wanted to write and say that I am so sorry you are having this problem. I myself am having a huge problem with ebay. Between them and PayPal (same owners, ya know), they DO have a monopoly going on. I would love to see them both fall flat on their faces, so to speak! Seller's don't have any rights anymore. It's crazy that you had to pay that much money and that they allowed someone to do you that way. Ebay and PayPal are really quite a joke!
Sincerely, Brooke
I won't pay Paypal. I have opened a new account and they can go **** themselves if they think I'm going to tell them where to find me.

Same for eBay. They keep sending me emails telling me to pay my balance I owe with them. But I can't pay the balance because my PayPal account is frozen. It's like a catch-22 situation. And there is no way to straighten out the situation.

So my original business is in ruins, and I have had to start a new one.
I hereby vow to **** paypal and ebay ten times over the way they have ****ed me. I promise.
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Old Sep 7th, 2008, 11:24 PM   #5
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Default re: PayPal Dispute: Can I sue them or take them to Small Claims in Ontario?

World Law's lawyers could also probably intervene and help resolve this if need be. You may email them on the home page.
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Old Sep 8th, 2008, 07:14 PM   #6
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Default re: PayPal Dispute: Can I sue them or take them to Small Claims in Ontario?

Quote:
Originally Posted by majidpucit123 View Post
It's never pleasant when you experience a transaction problem. However, using the Resolution Center, you can resolve any transaction problems promptly and easily.

When a buyer opens a dispute in the Resolution Center, it's your chance to:

* Communicate directly with the buyer to resolve the issue amicably.
* Provide prompt customer service that can gain you repeat business.
* Avoid the possibility of a dispute escalating to a claim or chargeback.
I did that. I provided pages of documentation there. PayPal ignored it. Then they ruled against me. Then they awarded the buyer more, on appeal. Then, they turned down my second appeal. Their argument was that I hadn't clicked on 'Resolve'. I explained this in my original post.
Their 'resolution center' is bogus and a sham.
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Old Jul 18th, 2009, 04:29 PM   #7
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Angry re: PayPal Dispute: Can I sue them or take them to Small Claims in Ontario?

Pay pal resolution is a joke. I bought something on eBay by "emil khan", who provided a tracking number but never shipped the product. Pay pal's response was to tell me to return the item (which I didn't receive) back to the seller for a refund! Yes, that was their response! Suffice to say, if you have any other way to pay, use it and avoid pay pal at all costs!
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Old Aug 7th, 2009, 12:03 AM   #8
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Thumbs Down re: PayPal Dispute: Can I sue them or take them to Small Claims in Ontario?

I had a similar problem. I sold a vintage saddle on Ebay, buyer paid and I shipped it. Buyer got the saddle and never contacted me. Over a week later the buyer filed a dispute with Paypal claiming the item was not as described. Buyer said the tree of the saddle was broken (really hard to do and that was not how it left my hands). I contacted the buyer and told them to file for the PO insurance as it was not broken when it left my hands. Their response was to push the Paypal dispute to claim by saying the insurance wouldn't cover the damage since only being run over by a truck or rolled on by a horse could have broken the tree. I provided paypal with photos of the saddle showing no damage prior to shipping and the fact that my auction said all sales final and copies of emails telling the buyer to file for the insurance as it was not broken when it left my hands.

I went back and forth with Paypal giving the money back to the buyer, then me, then back to the buyer. Eventually the buyer shipped the saddle back to me and it was covered in horse hair, the tree was broken and it now had a hole in the saddle seat. So it was obvious the buyer used the saddle, their horse rolled on it thus breaking it and putting the hole in it and so they then filed the dispute after they ruined it. I fought with Paypal and ebay for weeks. So I was out of the money for the saddle, the saddle which was ruined and over $40 in shipping.

I ended up filing a complaint with the BBB in California where Paypal's headquaters is. They gave me my money back but said it was not policy and only because they wanted to keep me as a customer since I had a good history with them were they willing to give me my money back.

If a buyer files a not as described complaint the seller is screwed. It does not matter what proof or policies or your attempts to resolve, paypal will always side with the buyer.
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Old Dec 17th, 2009, 10:56 PM   #9
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Default re: PayPal Dispute: Can I sue them or take them to Small Claims in Ontario?

These scum bags will eventually go broke..they allowed a buyer to charge back a $4,900 Rolex that I sold with proof of delivery and signature etc..I closed my linked bank account and simply opened another account and left the *******s stuck with a negative 5 grand PayPal ACCOUNT..blahhhh!!
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Old Dec 12th, 2011, 02:43 PM   #10
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Default Re: PayPal Dispute: Can I sue them or take them to Small Claims in Ontario?

Hm,, I see not only I have the problem with paypal. With me happend the same <a href="http://umumble.com/blogs/eCommerce/190/">story</a>
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